Stick Online Forums

Is VIT overpowered? some one brought it up in the game yesterday and i wanted to ask you all what you think.

For me i dont really know. but it seems a lot of people use a lot of it.

I don't think it is, because someone like Aqua (who has like 70 str) can beat some high vit accounts. I think str and vit have about the same ammount of power, and you need a good ammount of each to be successful in pvp.

No. Because some people who pump vit want it a multiple or 3 and 6, and want it relatively high, then they'll end up putting a bunch of stat points into VIT. So they have less points to put into other stats. They could have less strength than others, or agility, etc., thus leaving weaknesses.

I voted no, but that's only because it's been made not as powerful as it once was. Atm you get 3 hp per vit, but before that it was 4 hp per vit. So if someone had 70 vit, then they have lost 70 hp from this change. So it's not as bad anymore... but I still believe it's the best way to go for stats.

Quote from: Petro on July 03, 2009, 10:57:32 AM
I don't think it is, because someone like Aqua (who has like 70 str) can beat some high vit accounts. I think str and vit have about the same ammount of power, and you need a good ammount of each to be successful in pvp.

In my opinion, it is in a way.
You never (well, at least I have never in my 3 years of playing) hear of a good pvper that has a good agi/int buildup that can beat a good str/vit buildup.
Like Luda, for example. Well actually, I may prove myself wrong here... didn't he get his ass kicked by St3k in the simifinals of the third tournament?
I'm lost... >___<

Rachet and I, either of us on Rachet3333 can beat vit nubs. VIT is not overpowered. You're just a fool if you let someone with higher vit then you to sit for any long amount of time. Otherwise it's all good.

Everything has its counters.

Nope.

Not anymore it isnt. I think with the HP adjustment it's more balanced. people with 60-70 vit only ended up with about 30 hp less, because of the base HP boost.

And when we compare people like aqua and fog, who are roughly 70/30 both ways, yes we know aqua, who is str can beat the vit man. But really, 70 vit? That is to much. We all know vit has a soft cap, and he is hitting it way to hard, and he has such low str that he is ineffective.

Wouldn't that make STR and VIT not balanced? seeing as VIT gets less useful the more you have?

But why have balanced stats? everyone would be the same!

QuoteBut why have balanced stats? everyone would be the same!

do you mean balanced as in the fairness in the power of the stat. or do you mean a balanced in the number of stat points in each stat?

As in fairness, like 80/20 draws with 20/80

Quote from: JoEL on July 04, 2009, 09:00:20 AM
As in fairness, like 80/20 draws with 20/80

so you want stats to be unbalanced.

QuoteBut why have balanced stats?

and your reason for that is so that ever one will not be the same.

Quoteeveryone would be the same!

which i think is wrong because if stats are unbalanced people will just use the strongest one. meaning a lot of people will be the same.

But you said "like 80/20 draws with 20/80" which is balanced meaning both are the same on both sides causing a "balance" effect. but your calling that unbalanced. Unless you mean different.

your statements don't match up.

Vit And Sts is balanced. Aqua and I tested it. He had like 12 HP left and I had like 20 HP left. I still think the VIT update should have never happened.

Yeah, it's ballanced. But that VIT update made a HUGE difference. It used to be a heck of a lot better.
~Aqua

Quote from: ARTgames on July 04, 2009, 11:32:59 AM

Quote from: JoEL on July 04, 2009, 09:00:20 AM
As in fairness, like 80/20 draws with 20/80

so you want stats to be unbalanced.

QuoteBut why have balanced stats?

and your reason for that is so that ever one will not be the same.

Quoteeveryone would be the same!

which i think is wrong because if stats are unbalanced people will just use the strongest one. meaning a lot of people will be the same.

But you said "like 80/20 draws with 20/80" which is balanced meaning both are the same on both sides causing a "balance" effect. but your calling that unbalanced. Unless you mean different.

your statements don't match up.

Maybe if you stop splitting up my sentences you could understand it more, here it is in simpler terms.

80/20 and 20/80 draw = Balanced, but boring because everyone will be able to "draw" and it'd just be plain and boring to watch and play.

Quote from: JoEL on July 05, 2009, 09:43:03 PM

Quote from: ARTgames on July 04, 2009, 11:32:59 AM

Quote from: JoEL on July 04, 2009, 09:00:20 AM
As in fairness, like 80/20 draws with 20/80

so you want stats to be unbalanced.

QuoteBut why have balanced stats?

and your reason for that is so that ever one will not be the same.

Quoteeveryone would be the same!

which i think is wrong because if stats are unbalanced people will just use the strongest one. meaning a lot of people will be the same.

But you said "like 80/20 draws with 20/80" which is balanced meaning both are the same on both sides causing a "balance" effect. but your calling that unbalanced. Unless you mean different.

your statements don't match up.

Maybe if you stop splitting up my sentences you could understand it more, here it is in simpler terms.

80/20 and 20/80 draw = Balanced, but boring because everyone will be able to "draw" and it'd just be plain and boring to watch and play.

ok im fine with that. i see what your saying now.

I'm not sure, honestly... :P

The goal of any good RPG is to have balance in all things. Someone with a Vit build shouldn't overpower someone with a Str build. It's not boring, it's fair play. Of course, not everyone is going to have builds that are exactly opposite of someone else. You won't really get the 80/20 vs. 20/80. And even if you do, so what? One person is a tank, and the other can hit hard. That's actually a good match up. What would be boring is if the tank had so much HP and def that no one could build a str build strong enough to beat him. They would essentially have the "best" build in the game. The point of RPG's is to not have a "best" build, but to allow people to have a variety of different stats and still be able to compete with anyone else. The fun part is the skill and tactics of the individual players, not the ability to figure out what numbers add up to a winning character build.

QuoteThe point of RPG's is to not have a "best" build

I think its is finding the best build for your skills.

To make what you said simple its that the stats should be balance but the fun is in that all the stats do different things. And the variable should be your skill and not how much vit or str you have.

Also in that whole post you did not say weather or not VIT is overpowered. :P

I'm not sure if it is at this point. I know it used to be, but it was nerfed recently. I'm still not sure if that brought it back in balance with str though. Based on what everyone else is saying it sounds like it's more balanced now.

The real question is, are int and agi balanced with str and vit? Agi might be. I think a Str/Agi build might be good. But Int is definitely a bit underpowered. It's a usefull stat, but it's not necessary to have all that much. I guess every stat can't be completely balanced.

Quote from: Lingus on July 06, 2009, 08:19:06 PM
The real question is, are int and agi balanced with str and vit? Agi might be. I think a Str/Agi build might be good. But Int is definitely a bit underpowered. It's a usefull stat, but it's not necessary to have all that much. I guess every stat can't be completely balanced.

What does int do other than the green bar btw?

Also i think it would be really hard to balance AGI. Its the only stat that effect physic movements in the game. unlike the the others who only do there work in one point of time, AGI is in use all of the time your moving. AGI also have a almost uncontrollable variable on it, ping. I had many, MANY times that i have jump over a attack or ran past one on my screen and still get hit. because hit detection is done on there side (the person who hit me) and sent to the server (than me) making my agi is worth less. But its not there fault eater because on there screen i was in a place they could hit me. There stuff that can be done about this but im not going into it. im way off topic now.

I believe int just gives stamina. It determines your total stamina reserve as well as the amount of stamina you regen per tick.

As far as balancing agi goes, I think when Meiun made Agi affect attack speed it helped balance the stat with the others. Now not only does it make you move faster, it also makes it so you can attack slightly faster. This is usefull in pvp. If the person can take advantage of it, they can get more damage in a shorter period of time. It also makes it harder for the other person to take advantage of the cool down time since this is shortened.

Your comments on ping/lag is very valid. I think that's an element to SO pvp that is, in my opinion, undesirable. It is the one major reason holding the game back from being truely great. It's really the main reason why I'm not particularly fond of pvping in SO. I very much dislike being hit when on my screen I succesfully dodged the attack. There's no getting around that. It's poor game play. But, it doesn't deter from the effectiveness of Agi. It's really an additional factor apart from any game stat or mechanic that one needs to take into consideration when fighting.

QuoteBut, it doesn't deter from the effectiveness of Agi. It's really an additional factor apart from any game stat or mechanic that one needs to take into consideration when fighting.

Yeah that true but the effects are much worse. A lot more happens in the lag time of a height agi player than does some one with lower. some one with 50agi moves more in 200ms than some one with 20agi. that falls under your "It's really an additional factor apart from any game stat or mechanic that one needs to take into consideration when fighting." As in it affects when the time in which the even happens. Thats how ping does it. but what i really was trying to get at is this next part. which is much more than a ping problem.

Im not saying your wrong im talking about something else. your right about the ping Lingus.

But what you half to keep in mind is udp and motion perdition. only agi is affected by this directly. Let me give you a commend accents of how the connection to the game affect agi more than anything.

When im running (i have 60agi) and i jump my affect of movement happens at the lag of me to the server then the person. just like ever one else. (you see the past of every one) But here the differences. movements are udp and meiun uses motion perdition. If my packet of me jumping fails to get there because of the internet i keep running (because of motion perdition) on ever one else screen even if im really in the air. (in other words the internet lied) so im in the air and on ever one else screen im still running and i get hit.

unlike the hit which is sent over tcp is guaranteed to get there at the expense of more time unlike my movement packet that is sent out with no guarantee with udp. it adds almost a little randomness to it.

No other stat is affected by this. When you use your wep the effects of int happen right there independent of the connection. when the power of your hit by str being sent out how much dmg you did is not affected by the connection. The amount of health from vit you dont get taken away from you is not affected by the connection. the time of when it happens does but the the amount.

But the time of when you move and jump by agi is directly affected on your connection. the amount of space you move is affected when the packet of when your jump does not get there in time or at all.

Imo people with high agi are alot harder to hit because of this horrid laggy server...

Also, I've never seen SO miss a packet...I have how ever seen lots of delay on a packets arrival.

Quote from: JoEL on July 07, 2009, 12:25:59 AM
Imo people with high agi are alot harder to hit because of this horrid laggy server...

Also, I've never seen SO miss a packet...I have how ever seen lots of delay on a packets arrival.

You cant distinguish between a packet that made it there or not by looking at the game. But thats not the point.

non the less you still prove my point by staying it(lag and or packet loss) affects high agi player more.

QuoteImo people with high agi are alot harder to hit because of this horrid laggy server...

Edit:
lol im kinda the fool here because this off topic and there nothing we can really do to fix the problem other than getting better internet.

Quote from: JoEL on July 07, 2009, 12:25:59 AM
Imo people with high agi are alot harder to hit because of this horrid laggy server...

Also, I've never seen SO miss a packet...I have how ever seen lots of delay on a packets arrival.

Says the person from Australia playing on a server in the USA ;) But yeah, the server is still nowhere near what it was back in the day =/ Anyways.. Try not to get too far off topic guys. I did my best to try and make sure the stats were all at-least fairly balanced (with the obvious exception that INT overall never got it's further intended use of aiding with skills...). You guys just gotta remember that there are countless things to consider when determining what makes a build good or not, and it's not all directly related to 1v1 pvp. For instance, VIT may make you into a good tank, but you certainly can't level or hunt for gear as fast, in group/mass pvp battles you will simply get nailed from all angles and not be able to escape (while personaly I find that AGI is extremely useful in large scale battles), etc. etc. etc.

Quote from: Meiun on July 07, 2009, 01:38:01 AM

Quote from: JoEL on July 07, 2009, 12:25:59 AM
Imo people with high agi are alot harder to hit because of this horrid laggy server...

Also, I've never seen SO miss a packet...I have how ever seen lots of delay on a packets arrival.

Says the person from Australia playing on a server in the USA ;) But yeah, the server is still nowhere near what it was back in the day =/ Anyways.. Try not to get too far off topic guys. I did my best to try and make sure the stats were all at-least fairly balanced (with the obvious exception that INT overall never got it's further intended use of aiding with skills...). You guys just gotta remember that there are countless things to consider when determining what makes a build good or not, and it's not all directly related to 1v1 pvp. For instance, VIT may make you into a good tank, but you certainly can't level or hunt for gear as fast, in group/mass pvp battles you will simply get nailed from all angles and not be able to escape (while personaly I find that AGI is extremely useful in large scale battles), etc. etc. etc.

well the stick online god as spoken and has brought up something great. there more than 1v1 battles. i think i was stick on that mind set.

Art, I didn't really follow all of that, but I kind of see what you mean. If there's a delay in your movements being sent, a higher agi player will have moved farther in that delay than a low agi player would have so the delay affect a higher agi player more.

As for Meiun's statements, it's true. I didn't really consider this question in terms of pvm, I was just thinking about pvp. Normally when we talk about balancing stats it's against another player. But it's a good thing to consider in any RPG. What type of player are you? Do you even like to pvp, or will you be focusing on pvm mostly? If so, Vit might not be as overpowered as everyone once thought. It helps to have a certain amount so there's less down time to regen HP (same with Int) but Str is much more usefull in pvm. The higher damage you can inflict the easier it is to reach the damage threshold necessary to get 100% exp and max drop rates. Means you can level up faster and you get better drops (provided your vit and int aren't too low). Agi is also pretty usefull since it allows you to escape easier and to traverse the landscape faster in case you want to fight different monsters.

So yea, there's a lot to consider when balancing stats, and I really think SO does it pretty well.

Quote from: Lingus on July 07, 2009, 11:04:40 PM
Art, I didn't really follow all of that, but I kind of see what you mean. If there's a delay in your movements being sent, a higher agi player will have moved farther in that delay than a low agi player would have so the delay affect a higher agi player more.

As for Meiun's statements, it's true. I didn't really consider this question in terms of pvm, I was just thinking about pvp. Normally when we talk about balancing stats it's against another player. But it's a good thing to consider in any RPG. What type of player are you? Do you even like to pvp, or will you be focusing on pvm mostly? If so, Vit might not be as overpowered as everyone once thought. It helps to have a certain amount so there's less down time to regen HP (same with Int) but Str is much more usefull in pvm. The higher damage you can inflict the easier it is to reach the damage threshold necessary to get 100% exp and max drop rates. Means you can level up faster and you get better drops (provided your vit and int aren't too low). Agi is also pretty usefull since it allows you to escape easier and to traverse the landscape faster in case you want to fight different monsters.

So yea, there's a lot to consider when balancing stats, and I really think SO does it pretty well.

Thats what i would have posted if i could write.

I haven't tried the new update yet ... so posting on behalf of the 'old' version :S

I think it's overpowered, because whatever stats you got, you're still able to get to lvl 100. and IMO when you're 99-100 you dont pve as much as pvp, meaning that your high vit, is dominating the match. I once read a post (dont remember the poster), stating that S.O. was a pvp-based game (which was also the excuse for not changing the pvp system (you know, you could once atk all if you only had pvp on..)).

So.. if you're a lvl 100 tank like foG (he is also #1 on "project X" or SOPL (:S)), then you do much pvp, and since vit is overpowered (have still not tried the update) then you're the best :/
IMO: Vit and Str should be balanced in a way, so 1 vit is negated by 1 str, meaning that a 70 vit'er vs a 50 str'er has relatively 20 vit vs. "0" str. Then the pvp match is more based on agi, int and pure skills.