Religion Thread 2.0

[Mystery]

gay marriage is against christianity and it seams gay people just have to have it, why for who knows maybe because they cant have it? people want what they cant have i suppose. I think since its such a big thing to the christian religion...and marriage was originally created by the church for a man and a women im pretty sure so i dont understand why gays cant let it slide. sorry im not on the bandwagon for freedom and im dragging everybody down. It just seams to me that gays are just picking fights with a order thats been set in stone and been doing there own thing before a peen even ever touched a hairy mans lips. About the weird comment, there are people who are gay just to be different, i knew a few back when, and thats what i meant.

No, all they want is the lawful(note LAWFUL, as marriage is NOT primarily religious by definition, it's a legal construct) ability to have the same recognition as heterosexuals of them being together.

Personally I find marriage (heterosexual) as a whole hilarious. There is literally NO reason to get married except for religious ones(men surrender MANY things if they happen to get divorced, it's an emotionally charged issue for the woman if they divorce, not to mention what happens to the child), and then half the people who do get married break it off.

no i appreciate my life, i just dont understand all the drama and bullshit and thats what i think is noise. Like gay marriage for example a man is made to love a women, for whatever reason some people dont have these same intended by nature feelings.

Wrong. Homosexuality appears in nature. Pretty often, too, somewhat more than in humans(whether that be because of pressure to be not be gay or it's just less prevalent). Typically homosexual animals are able to care more for others' children, take care of special tasks, and so on. Many animals have bisexual tendencies, too.

I believe what I logically determine to be true based on the available evidence. In fact, I'm wholly convinced that Jesus Christ is a fictional character in the new testament.

That being said, I don't see any problem with people following any religion as long as it doesn't interfere with social advancement. Unfortunately, it very often does interfere with social advancement. Laws restricting gay marriage and atheist senators are totally counterproductive and only exist (in a few states) as a result of religious preaching. There are an incredible number of examples of religious beliefs directly interfering with social advancement and until a solution to this can be found, I give religion a thumbs down.

This is how I am largely. I look at positive vs. negative impact on things like this.

If you were born in Iraq, you'd be a Muslim. If you were born in India, you'd be a Hindu. If you were born in Ancient Greece, you'd pray to Athena. The religion you follow can easily be explained through geography and culture. The problem is, since you were raised Christian, it's extremely hard to see the flaws in that religion because they seem so normal.

This is very true.

Wasn't there some evidence that was being investigated a couple years back (wanna say around 07-08) where archaeologists might have discovered the tomb of Christ, body and all?  I honestly didn't keep up with it, as so far as I remember it sort of fell off the radar.

I watched a couple of episodes of those on the History Channel because I was interested. As far I could tell, it was very difficult to make a judgement on whose body it was conclusively. That was the issue because either the body wasn't there(at which I would say grave robbers probably took the body or something similar) or it was damaged badly. Anyway, yeah, those did fall off the radar, since they couldn't go anywhere from there.

I'll clarify my position a bit more. I'm an almost-gnostic(in other words, as far down the spectrum as possible without saying those things are impossible) atheist, secular humanist, and existentialist. I acknowledge that anything is possible, though from a chance-oriented perspective, many things are so unlikely the chance of them being true might as well be 0, although it's not. If you look at an existential perspective, the chance of EVERYTHING being true is 1/infinity(same chance as above), although depending on what you more or less 'know' about your position in existence, some things are at the same time overwhelmingly more likely than others.

[Jake]

gay marriage is against christianity and it seams gay people just have to have it, why for who knows maybe because they cant have it? people want what they cant have i suppose. I think since its such a big thing to the christian religion...and marriage was originally created by the church for a man and a women im pretty sure so i dont understand why gays cant let it slide. sorry im not on the bandwagon for freedom and im dragging everybody down. It just seams to me that gays are just picking fights with a order thats been set in stone and been doing there own thing before a peen even ever touched a hairy mans lips. About the weird comment, there are people who are gay just to be different, i knew a few back when, and thats what i meant.

note: i have nothing against gays i find they are the easiest people to get along with. I just dont understand why they need to get married :\.

desegregation is against christianity and it seems black people just have to have it, why for who knows maybe because they can't have it? people want what they cant have I suppose. I think since it's a big thing to the christian religion... and segregation was originally created by the church so I don't understand why blacks cant let it slide. sorry im not on the bandwagon for freedom and im dragging everyone down. It just seems to me that blacks are just picking fights with an order thats been set in stone and been picking cotton before they tried to segregate. About the weird comment, being black is a curse from God, I've linched a few back when, and thats what I meant.

note: I have nothing against blacks I find they are easy people to get along with. I just don't understand why they want equal rights.

[Torch]

Personally I find marriage (heterosexual) as a whole hilarious. There is literally NO reason to get married except for religious ones(men surrender MANY things if they happen to get divorced, it's an emotionally charged issue for the woman if they divorce, not to mention what happens to the child), and then half the people who do get married break it off.

There are A LOT of legal benefits (in Canada at least). You get some pretty significant insurance discounts on auto, home, and life insurance. You get immigration benefits for your family, visitation rights for your spouses property or to visit them in jail. Marriage gives great pension and retirement benefits, you even get huge tax benefits in filing joint tax returns.

Marriage can be VERY beneficial and if you're worried about divorce, you can always get a prenup agreement.

lmfao @ Jake

[Yankyal]

gay marriage is against christianity and it seams gay people just have to have it, why for who knows maybe because they cant have it? people want what they cant have i suppose. I think since its such a big thing to the christian religion...and marriage was originally created by the church for a man and a women im pretty sure so i dont understand why gays cant let it slide. sorry im not on the bandwagon for freedom and im dragging everybody down. It just seams to me that gays are just picking fights with a order thats been set in stone and been doing there own thing before a peen even ever touched a hairy mans lips. About the weird comment, there are people who are gay just to be different, i knew a few back when, and thats what i meant.

note: i have nothing against gays i find they are the easiest people to get along with. I just dont understand why they need to get married :\.

Marriage is a legal contract supported by the government. If you can ban it based on religious grounds then that would be the government promoting a specific religion which is against Separation of Church and State. Welcome to the constitution homie. Banning gay marriage is unconstitutional.

I watched a couple of episodes of those on the History Channel because I was interested. As far I could tell, it was very difficult to make a judgement on whose body it was conclusively. That was the issue because either the body wasn't there(at which I would say grave robbers probably took the body or something similar) or it was damaged badly. Anyway, yeah, those did fall off the radar, since they couldn't go anywhere from there.

I'll clarify my position a bit more. I'm an almost-gnostic(in other words, as far down the spectrum as possible without saying those things are impossible) atheist, secular humanist, and existentialist. I acknowledge that anything is possible, though from a chance-oriented perspective, many things are so unlikely the chance of them being true might as well be 0, although it's not. If you look at an existential perspective, the chance of EVERYTHING being true is 1/infinity(same chance as above), although depending on what you more or less 'know' about your position in existence, some things are at the same time overwhelmingly more likely than others.

The same technology that dated his body is the same technology that has dated the earth to be far more than the calculated 6,000 years in the bible. Maybe Jesus was just a normal guy with amazing public speaking, but what the bible says about any of his holy endeavors has ZERO evidence.

Also another reason why I became atheist, look at the Ark. I mean, really. There are millions of species of animals, yet Noah fit them on his hand crafted boat and fed them for 40 days(somehow). Then he left the Ark to a desolate wasteland which would have destroyed 99% of life(including vegetation), and somehow just goes around surviving. This on top of the fact that a supposedly loving god just wiped out the entire planet of human beings has pretty much invalidated anything Christians or the Bible says. Can anyone answer why god killed the entire earth, or how Noah could have logically accomplished that when not even the greatest of our technologies could do even a fraction of that?

[ARTgames]

The most amazing thing I see about religion is how it last so long. I know its a way of life for some people and gets passed down etc, but how it got there and how it stayed so long is interesting. I mean think of the mind share and notability the words God and Jesus have. If I where an adverting company this would be my holy grail.

[Mystery]

Personally I find marriage (heterosexual) as a whole hilarious. There is literally NO reason to get married except for religious ones(men surrender MANY things if they happen to get divorced, it's an emotionally charged issue for the woman if they divorce, not to mention what happens to the child), and then half the people who do get married break it off.

There are A LOT of legal benefits (in Canada at least). You get some pretty significant insurance discounts on auto, home, and life insurance. You get immigration benefits for your family, visitation rights for your spouses property or to visit them in jail. Marriage gives great pension and retirement benefits, you even get huge tax benefits in filing joint tax returns.

Marriage can be VERY beneficial and if you're worried about divorce, you can always get a prenup agreement.

Let me rephrase what I said.

I am aware of the numerous benefits that marriage bestows onto people legally(even more so in certain areas, like all you said you guys get in Canada).

I, however, recognize that most people almost never marry just to get those benefits. They do it for personal/religious reasons. The benefits are just icing on the cake and essentially not a factor(if it is, it's a small one) in their decision.

And when people divorce(at least here in AMURICA), they usually didn't think of getting a prenup beforehand.

The same technology that dated his body is the same technology that has dated the earth to be far more than the calculated 6,000 years in the bible. Maybe Jesus was just a normal guy with amazing public speaking, but what the bible says about any of his holy endeavors has ZERO evidence.

I know his body was dated. My point is, as well as I can remember, they couldn't definitively prove it was Jesus. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, as my memory on that topic is rusty.

Also another reason why I became atheist, look at the Ark. I mean, really. There are millions of species of animals, yet Noah fit them on his hand crafted boat and fed them for 40 days(somehow). Then he left the Ark to a desolate wasteland which would have destroyed 99% of life(including vegetation), and somehow just goes around surviving. This on top of the fact that a supposedly loving god just wiped out the entire planet of human beings has pretty much invalidated anything Christians or the Bible says. Can anyone answer why god killed the entire earth, or how Noah could have logically accomplished that when not even the greatest of our technologies could do even a fraction of that?

You could say this for nigh every story in the Bible.

[TANK]

gay marriage is against christianity and it seams gay people just have to have it, why for who knows maybe because they cant have it? people want what they cant have i suppose. I think since its such a big thing to the christian religion...and marriage was originally created by the church for a man and a women im pretty sure so i dont understand why gays cant let it slide. sorry im not on the bandwagon for freedom and im dragging everybody down. It just seams to me that gays are just picking fights with a order thats been set in stone and been doing there own thing before a peen even ever touched a hairy mans lips. About the weird comment, there are people who are gay just to be different, i knew a few back when, and thats what i meant.

note: i have nothing against gays i find they are the easiest people to get along with. I just dont understand why they need to get married :\.

desegregation is against christianity and it seems black people just have to have it, why for who knows maybe because they can't have it? people want what they cant have I suppose. I think since it's a big thing to the christian religion... and segregation was originally created by the church so I don't understand why blacks cant let it slide. sorry im not on the bandwagon for freedom and im dragging everyone down. It just seems to me that blacks are just picking fights with an order thats been set in stone and been picking cotton before they tried to segregate. About the weird comment, being black is a curse from God, I've linched a few back when, and thats what I meant.

note: I have nothing against blacks I find they are easy people to get along with. I just don't understand why they want equal rights.

haha i like what you did there, although i dont undertsand why two men making drama about putting a ring on eachothers finger is the same as opressing and whiping black people. I get where you're coming from though.

[DarkTrinity]

There are A LOT of legal benefits (in Canada at least). You get some pretty significant insurance discounts on auto, home, and life insurance. You get immigration benefits for your family, visitation rights for your spouses property or to visit them in jail. Marriage gives great pension and retirement benefits, you even get huge tax benefits in filing joint tax returns.

Marriage can be VERY beneficial and if you're worried about divorce, you can always get a prenup agreement.

Let me rephrase what I said.

I am aware of the numerous benefits that marriage bestows onto people legally(even more so in certain areas, like all you said you guys get in Canada).

I, however, recognize that most people almost never marry just to get those benefits. They do it for personal/religious reasons. The benefits are just icing on the cake and essentially not a factor(if it is, it's a small one) in their decision.

And when people divorce(at least here in AMURICA), they usually didn't think of getting a prenup beforehand.

I think a lot of people also find it slightly offensive to even suggest getting one.. It's kinda like saying you have doubts in your mind that your marriage will last, so you want a back up plan. (and of course, genuine gold-diggers would be really offended ;P )
With the divorce rates these days though, I think it's probably a good idea to get one.

+1 for Jake, he pretty much summed up all my thoughts about what I wanted to say to TANK...
@TANK, if you don't understand "the drama" over it, then maybe you should read what people actually wrote... it's not just about being married, there are legal practices and advantages behind it, also a form of oppression. Maybe I'll just never start a career and sit in the kitchen all day, because so many men opposed to women having a career and we just made a huge fuss over it, and we outnumber men, so we got our way.


I'm curious about any Christian's views on dinosaurs and carbon dating and what-not... because the bible clearly states Earth is 6,000 something years old, where as scientists say billions... I've heard some people say that "dinosaurs never existed and that they were put here by the devil to test our faith in god, blah blah" and I'm curious if people seriously believe that or they have some other thoughts in their minds on it all..

[Torch]

gay marriage is against christianity and it seams gay people just have to have it, why for who knows maybe because they cant have it? people want what they cant have i suppose. I think since its such a big thing to the christian religion...and marriage was originally created by the church for a man and a women im pretty sure so i dont understand why gays cant let it slide. sorry im not on the bandwagon for freedom and im dragging everybody down. It just seams to me that gays are just picking fights with a order thats been set in stone and been doing there own thing before a peen even ever touched a hairy mans lips. About the weird comment, there are people who are gay just to be different, i knew a few back when, and thats what i meant.

note: i have nothing against gays i find they are the easiest people to get along with. I just dont understand why they need to get married :\.

desegregation is against christianity and it seems black people just have to have it, why for who knows maybe because they can't have it? people want what they cant have I suppose. I think since it's a big thing to the christian religion... and segregation was originally created by the church so I don't understand why blacks cant let it slide. sorry im not on the bandwagon for freedom and im dragging everyone down. It just seems to me that blacks are just picking fights with an order thats been set in stone and been picking cotton before they tried to segregate. About the weird comment, being black is a curse from God, I've linched a few back when, and thats what I meant.

note: I have nothing against blacks I find they are easy people to get along with. I just don't understand why they want equal rights.

haha i like what you did there, although i dont undertsand why two men making drama about putting a ring on eachothers finger is the same as opressing and whiping black people. I get where you're coming from though.

It's more like millions of american citizens up in arms over what is pretty much religious oppression. You clearly don't understand the importance of marriage in american society. It's a bit more than "putting a ring on eachothers finger", it's a HUGE part of the american lifestyle. So much of american law and culture is based around marriage and you're promoting excluding American citizens from this because what? They have different beliefs from you? That is the kind of oppressing view that creates religious conflict in the first place.

I STRONGLY recommend rethinking your views on gay marriage.

[TANK]

see i dont have a problem with gay marriage, the church does and they are pretty big and have been around for a while, thats why i dont understand why gays dont let it go. Also you're right im very uninformed about how marriage works on the benefits and disadvanteges but it just seams to me they could do without it..the church pretty much started marriage after all. (not entirely sure on that)

[Torch]

see i dont have a problem with gay marriage, the church does and they are pretty big and have been around for a while, thats why i dont understand why gays dont let it go. Also you're right im very uninformed about how marriage works on the benefits and disadvanteges but it just seams to me they could do without it..the church pretty much started marriage after all. (not entirely sure on that)

Gays don't "let it go" because it is unjust, unconstitutional, oppressive, and restricts them from a ton of benefits. The church didn't start marriage, almost every species in existence has a mating ritual of sorts. Not only that but marriage exists and has existed in almost every culture in the world, since before Christianity even existed and in places when Christianity isn't even an influence.

The church has no patent on marriage and regardless, giving any of the church's views legal authority totally goes against the constitution and human equality as a whole.

[Mystery]

I'm curious, what're everyone's thoughts on this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4OK9DmLpCY&feature=g-logo&context=G2a154c7FOAAAAAAAHAA and the more viewed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IAhDGYlpqY&feature=related

He's the one with the 'I Hate Religion, but Love Jesus' video.

I compare him to someone who hates dairy products but loves milk. In other words, a crock.

[Mr Pwnage]

I'm curious, what're everyone's thoughts on this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4OK9DmLpCY&feature=g-logo&context=G2a154c7FOAAAAAAAHAA and the more viewed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IAhDGYlpqY&feature=related

He's the one with the 'I Hate Religion, but Love Jesus' video.

I compare him to someone who hates dairy products but loves milk. In other words, a crock.

To be honest it sounds nice, but all he projects is spiced up contradictory messages. If we get to the content of of poems and forget the dramatic music and fairly well done delivery, it doesn't make any sense. Regarding the "Why I Hate Religion but Love Jesus" video, just watch this: http://youtu.be/yBo7Z_abiLE , I feel it addresses most of the bullshit pretty accurately.

[Celson]

I'm curious, what're everyone's thoughts on this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4OK9DmLpCY&feature=g-logo&context=G2a154c7FOAAAAAAAHAA and the more viewed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IAhDGYlpqY&feature=related

He's the one with the 'I Hate Religion, but Love Jesus' video.

I compare him to someone who hates dairy products but loves milk. In other words, a crock.

Was also planning on posting the same videos. Here is what TheAmazingAtheist thinks of them: http://youtu.be/jv2SSGSJrB4
http://youtu.be/yBo7Z_abiLE

Both good responses.

EDIT: Ahh Mr Pwnage already linked for one of them.

[Matty_Richo]

I know I'm a bit late with this, but Jake, thanks for mentioning The Dossier of Reason, I've been reading through it. The thing that stands out most to me is a point that I mentioned before, it would appear as though he was a Christian simply because his parents were and he was raised that way, and that is something I think is a huge problem, people simply following a religion because it's how they were raised. A lot of people like that just accept it for a while without making an informed and educated decision and often later on fall away from their beliefs for other reasons.

I'm curious about any Christian's views on dinosaurs and carbon dating and what-not... because the bible clearly states Earth is 6,000 something years old, where as scientists say billions... I've heard some people say that "dinosaurs never existed and that they were put here by the devil to test our faith in god, blah blah" and I'm curious if people seriously believe that or they have some other thoughts in their minds on it all..

Well then I am more than happy to share my views with you.
I definitely believe that dinosaurs did exist, I also believe that the earth is somewhere around the 6,000-10,000 year old mark. In the book of Job it describes a creature called the 'behemoth' that fits the description of a brachiosaurus like creature. This does contradict the theory that dinosaurs died millions of years before humans existed, however it is my personal belief that humans and dinosaurs co-existed and that dinosaurs didn't go extinct until most probably just after the flood, due to the change in environment, lack of food etc. or even [unlikely but possibly] as late as a thousand years ago.
There are many historical documents (including the bible) that talk about creatures that fit the description of dinosaurs, of course the word dinosaur wasn't given to the until early 1800s (correct me if I'm wrong there) so of course it used many other words to describe them, one of the most commonly used terms to describe a creature with that description is 'dragon' which is featured in all manner of mythology, history of different cultures, other religions etc.

As for carbon dating...
I believe that the flood changed a lot of things about the earth, I don't understand the science of it 100% however I do have a pretty good grasp of it, so I'm not going to try and explain it however I will point you in the direction of an article that I think explains it pretty well. http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/does-c14-disprove-the-bible

I hope that covers what you wanted to know DT, if not, feel free to tell me and I'll try to answer you. Also keep in mind that a lot of Christians have a very different belief and there are probably some who think that dinosaurs aren't real and are just bones placed by the devil and whatnot, however the people who say that are generally uninformed on the topic and as far as Christians who have researched this sort of thing, most of them follow the same, or a similar thinking.