You see, I was thinking.
Stick-Online 2, back in the day, had about 50 people on at once, and over 10,000 registered users, with barely any advertising.
Now, this was a GameMaker game based of the 39dll.
From the look of the screenshots, and what I hear, in this next C++ rebuild. I can almost vision Stick Online becoming a kind of MapleStory, it may lose it's sense of community, but the game itself will prosper greatly.
I was thinking...what if we could host custom servers, like Minecraft, and have a C++ API with hooks and methods to add plugins?
I know this would require quite a bit of work...but when I started playing Minecraft back during Alpha, I started learning programming hMod plugins. I then continued this during Canary - the continuation of hMod, and even contribute some time on the gitHub from time to time.
So my suggestion is this. An API, a plugin system, and a gitHub repository.
I personally would love to be able to study C++, and submit some pulls and commits, so that we could get a proper development team, and it wouldn't just rely on Meiun doing all the work.
My understanding is that it's using .NET with the XNA framework, not C++.
Github won't happen because the game isn't intended to be released under an open source license.
User hosted servers won't happen either since it is intended to follow an MMO structure of gameplay, thus one server, many players.
All the above is based off the following topic (Unless Meiun has changed something since):
http://www.stick-online.com/boards/index.php?topic=2180.msg46519#msg46519
Not a bad idea actually. There were a few "illegal" user hosted severs that popped up in SO2. Letting people run with it would be a great way to eliminate any conflicts. It may also deter people from trying to hack on the "official" hosted server. If they can create their own server that allows them to do whatever they want then what would be the point.
The new version of Stick Online is actually written entirely in C# (not C++), with a minimal reliance on the XNA framework for drawing the graphics. It is a project that is rather personal to me, and (as Scotty said) intended to follow the MMO structure, so allowing people to host their own servers and/or develop mods is definitely not a direction we plan on taking the game. In all honesty I have actually very much enjoyed being the lone coder for the game over the years. Ive found a great sense of satisfaction with coding every aspect of a large project like this myself. Like I said, it is a very personal project to me. Besides, I get more than enough collaborative programming at work @_@.
Quote from: Lingus on May 22, 2012, 02:34:48 PM
Not a bad idea actually. There were a few "illegal" user hosted severs that popped up in SO2. Letting people run with it would be a great way to eliminate any conflicts. It may also deter people from trying to hack on the "official" hosted server. If they can create their own server that allows them to do whatever they want then what would be the point.
no just no lol all im going to say lol
Quote from: havok on May 26, 2012, 10:30:15 AM
Quote from: Lingus on May 22, 2012, 02:34:48 PM
Not a bad idea actually. There were a few "illegal" user hosted severs that popped up in SO2. Letting people run with it would be a great way to eliminate any conflicts. It may also deter people from trying to hack on the "official" hosted server. If they can create their own server that allows them to do whatever they want then what would be the point.
no just no lol all im going to say lol
That was posted more as a "I know this isn't going to happen, but..." And anyways, I don't think you were around to see some of the "illegal" user hosted servers that popped up and/or "major" instances of hacking. All I was saying is if user hosted servers were allowable, it would be able to be more controlled by Meiun rather than completely off the grid like they were. Again, not that I think it will happen, or even that I'm serious about the suggestion. But I do think something like that would be a deterent.
It's similar to the argument against DRM. Rather than attempting to lock everything down and put restrictions on things, which just makes people want to try to break the restrictions even more, allow people access to the things they want access to and the developer/owner is better able to control their property. Or even that they don't need to control it because there is no reason for people to try to break whatever restrictions are left over.
Quote from: Lingus on June 13, 2012, 04:29:43 PM
Quote from: havok on May 26, 2012, 10:30:15 AM
Quote from: Lingus on May 22, 2012, 02:34:48 PM
Not a bad idea actually. There were a few "illegal" user hosted severs that popped up in SO2. Letting people run with it would be a great way to eliminate any conflicts. It may also deter people from trying to hack on the "official" hosted server. If they can create their own server that allows them to do whatever they want then what would be the point.
no just no lol all im going to say lol
That was posted more as a "I know this isn't going to happen, but..." And anyways, I don't think you were around to see some of the "illegal" user hosted servers that popped up and/or "major" instances of hacking. All I was saying is if user hosted servers were allowable, it would be able to be more controlled by Meiun rather than completely off the grid like they were. Again, not that I think it will happen, or even that I'm serious about the suggestion. But I do think something like that would be a deterent.
It's similar to the argument against DRM. Rather than attempting to lock everything down and put restrictions on things, which just makes people want to try to break the restrictions even more, allow people access to the things they want access to and the developer/owner is better able to control their property. Or even that they don't need to control it because there is no reason for people to try to break whatever restrictions are left over.
I understand where you coming from.
However that would make it to where he would have to code even more when v3 is still not done then have to code to protect it and yes people will try and hack it but people will try even more and it will be even Easier with a personal server
Quote from: havok on June 13, 2012, 06:17:19 PM
However that would make it to where he would have to code even more when v3 is still not done then have to code to protect it and yes people will try and hack it but people will try even more and it will be even Easier with a personal server
I'd actually disagree with this. By the direction Lingus and you are taking this, I read the word "hacking" as maliciously manipulating the game (be it server and/or client) to their own gain. What would be the point? That's like saying someone "hacked" Minecraft, yet that game is still being actively developed, and despite how many knockoffs there are, how many duplicates people have attempted, none of them have been even remotely as successful as Minecraft. If I "hacked" my minecraft download, I don't get nearly the amount of satisfaction since I'm the only one holding my enlarged genitalia in my left hand. Now if I could do that in front of everyone on one official server, now
that would be impressive!
Quote from: Scotty on June 13, 2012, 08:02:06 PM
Quote from: havok on June 13, 2012, 06:17:19 PM
However that would make it to where he would have to code even more when v3 is still not done then have to code to protect it and yes people will try and hack it but people will try even more and it will be even Easier with a personal server
I'd actually disagree with this. By the direction Lingus and you are taking this, I read the word "hacking" as maliciously manipulating the game (be it server and/or client) to their own gain. What would be the point? That's like saying someone "hacked" Minecraft, yet that game is still being actively developed, and despite how many knockoffs there are, how many duplicates people have attempted, none of them have been even remotely as successful as Minecraft. If I "hacked" my minecraft download, I don't get nearly the amount of satisfaction since I'm the only one holding my enlarged genitalia in my left hand. Now if I could do that in front of everyone on one official server, now that would be impressive!
sorry I didn't clarify I believe there would still be a main server and hacking items into the main server or other peoples. It would be like me using mods on your minecraft server in a way do to speak
Quote from: Scotty on June 13, 2012, 08:02:06 PM
Quote from: havok on June 13, 2012, 06:17:19 PM
However that would make it to where he would have to code even more when v3 is still not done then have to code to protect it and yes people will try and hack it but people will try even more and it will be even Easier with a personal server
I'd actually disagree with this. By the direction Lingus and you are taking this, I read the word "hacking" as maliciously manipulating the game (be it server and/or client) to their own gain. What would be the point? That's like saying someone "hacked" Minecraft, yet that game is still being actively developed, and despite how many knockoffs there are, how many duplicates people have attempted, none of them have been even remotely as successful as Minecraft. If I "hacked" my minecraft download, I don't get nearly the amount of satisfaction since I'm the only one holding my enlarged genitalia in my left hand. Now if I could do that in front of everyone on one official server, now that would be impressive!
Yes, this was my point.
Quote from: havok on June 13, 2012, 08:30:20 PM
sorry I didn't clarify I believe there would still be a main server and hacking items into the main server or other peoples. It would be like me using mods on your minecraft server in a way do to speak
I get that, but I still think having unofficial user hosted servers would deter people from attempting to hack on the official main server. Some people would still want to, but that's going to be the case no matter what.
Quote from: Scotty on June 13, 2012, 08:02:06 PM
Quote from: havok on June 13, 2012, 06:17:19 PM
However that would make it to where he would have to code even more when v3 is still not done then have to code to protect it and yes people will try and hack it but people will try even more and it will be even Easier with a personal server
I'd actually disagree with this. By the direction Lingus and you are taking this, I read the word "hacking" as maliciously manipulating the game (be it server and/or client) to their own gain. What would be the point? That's like saying someone "hacked" Minecraft, yet that game is still being actively developed, and despite how many knockoffs there are, how many duplicates people have attempted, none of them have been even remotely as successful as Minecraft. If I "hacked" my minecraft download, I don't get nearly the amount of satisfaction since I'm the only one holding my enlarged genitalia in my left hand. Now if I could do that in front of everyone on one official server, now that would be impressive!
Minecraft is not a competitive MMO title. As far as memory serves me, Stick Online is, and is planned to be on further release. Possession of the game's server would allow the subject to gain information on how the game receives and forwards packets from other players, which would further allow the subject to mess around with the official server (taking into account the possibility of the existence of security holes). Minecraft also doesn't have the official server for people to play in, it was always meant to be a single-player - LAN multi-player game.
I'm prety sure this would be a bad idea in general. Acquiring server files and executables allows you to easily making a fake server forwarding fake responses and packets to whatever destination you desire. Even the official server, if the precautions haven't been met, while being totally untraceable.
Krele, then how do you explain past instances of people hacking SO and putting up unofficial servers? People found a way into those security holes anyways. I guess giving them a server would allow them to do it easier (maybe?) but wouldn't that possibility be nullified by the effect of eliminating the desire to hack those security holes?
Either way, i feel this is all kind of theoretical. My intention is not to convince Meiun to even consider putting out a public version of the server for other people to host. I was really just making a point. So rather than have this continue down whatever path it's going, we can all just agree to agree.
Quote from: Lingus on June 18, 2012, 08:41:22 PM
Krele, then how do you explain past instances of people hacking SO and putting up unofficial servers? People found a way into those security holes anyways. I guess giving them a server would allow them to do it easier (maybe?) but wouldn't that possibility be nullified by the effect of eliminating the desire to hack those security holes?
Either way, i feel this is all kind of theoretical. My intention is not to convince Meiun to even consider putting out a public version of the server for other people to host. I was really just making a point. So rather than have this continue down whatever path it's going, we can all just agree to agree.
How about people NOT go into details about anything of that sort. Conceptual or not. I believe I already stated I have no intention of releasing server stuff. As Krele mentioned, it could do a lot more potential harm than good. It would do little more than give people a place to practice screwing with stuff. Stick Online is, and forever will be an MMO, not a player hosted game like Terraria or Minecraft. This topic has already been treading some shady subjects, and I believe I already made my answer clear. I'm not one for closing topics, but I'd at least like to request that people try and stray from going any further down the route of discussing things that violate the game rules (conceptual or not).
Well, I guess I apologize if I was involved in that...
I think It was said a long time ago but it was that Stick Online is not a community project. But a close source project by Meiun.
Quote from: Lingus on June 18, 2012, 08:41:22 PM
Krele, then how do you explain past instances of people hacking SO and putting up unofficial servers? People found a way into those security holes anyways. I guess giving them a server would allow them to do it easier (maybe?) but wouldn't that possibility be nullified by the effect of eliminating the desire to hack those security holes?
Either way, i feel this is all kind of theoretical. My intention is not to convince Meiun to even consider putting out a public version of the server for other people to host. I was really just making a point. So rather than have this continue down whatever path it's going, we can all just agree to agree.
It's not theoretical. It's full of facts :). With all due respect mate, I think you're questioning someone much more superior than you in the field we're currently discussing. It's funny that you mention how giving people a server would allow them to do it easier. Irony at it's best. However like Meiun said we should not discuss this any further.
Like I said, SO is planned to be a MMO. Releasing the server binaries of the game in that genre is
stupid.
Krele, my comment about it being theoretical had nothing to do with your post. I just meant that I didn't think Meiun would be doing this anyways, so it's basically pointless to discuss it.
Anyways, I'm not sure how this got so out of hand. I was just having a discussion about an idea. I didn't intend for anyone to get upset about this.
Quote from: krele on June 20, 2012, 12:52:58 PM
Quote from: Lingus on June 18, 2012, 08:41:22 PM
Krele, then how do you explain past instances of people hacking SO and putting up unofficial servers? People found a way into those security holes anyways. I guess giving them a server would allow them to do it easier (maybe?) but wouldn't that possibility be nullified by the effect of eliminating the desire to hack those security holes?
Either way, i feel this is all kind of theoretical. My intention is not to convince Meiun to even consider putting out a public version of the server for other people to host. I was really just making a point. So rather than have this continue down whatever path it's going, we can all just agree to agree.
It's not theoretical. It's full of facts :). With all due respect mate, I think you're questioning someone much more superior than you in the field we're currently discussing. It's funny that you mention how giving people a server would allow them to do it easier. Irony at it's best. However like Meiun said we should not discuss this any further.
Like I said, SO is planned to be a MMO. Releasing the server binaries of the game in that genre is stupid.
I think you're being a little bit rude in your word choice. Lingus had a valid point to make about an open server system, regardless of whether or not it's a good idea for Stick online. He understands exactly what he is talking about, so trying to determine who is "superior" when Lingus was simply speculating about possibilities and benefits of a different system, is a little bit childish.
Quote from: Lingus on June 25, 2012, 09:15:32 PM
Anyways, I'm not sure how this got so out of hand. I was just having a discussion about an idea. I didn't intend for anyone to get upset about this.
You didn't say anything wrong. People are getting worked up over a misinterpretation of your words.
Thanks Jake. I was feeling like I had started this ball rolling. But I don't blame Krele for getting worked up. I know he's passionate about this stuff.
Quote from: Jake on June 27, 2012, 01:56:59 AM
Quote from: krele on June 20, 2012, 12:52:58 PM
Quote from: Lingus on June 18, 2012, 08:41:22 PM
Krele, then how do you explain past instances of people hacking SO and putting up unofficial servers? People found a way into those security holes anyways. I guess giving them a server would allow them to do it easier (maybe?) but wouldn't that possibility be nullified by the effect of eliminating the desire to hack those security holes?
Either way, i feel this is all kind of theoretical. My intention is not to convince Meiun to even consider putting out a public version of the server for other people to host. I was really just making a point. So rather than have this continue down whatever path it's going, we can all just agree to agree.
It's not theoretical. It's full of facts :). With all due respect mate, I think you're questioning someone much more superior than you in the field we're currently discussing. It's funny that you mention how giving people a server would allow them to do it easier. Irony at it's best. However like Meiun said we should not discuss this any further.
Like I said, SO is planned to be a MMO. Releasing the server binaries of the game in that genre is stupid.
I think you're being a little bit rude in your word choice. Lingus had a valid point to make about an open server system, regardless of whether or not it's a good idea for Stick online. He understands exactly what he is talking about, so trying to determine who is "superior" when Lingus was simply speculating about possibilities and benefits of a different system, is a little bit childish.
I don't see anything wrong in my word choice. Please bold the words that might seem rude and/or offensive to an adult, for future sakes of my oh-so-advanced vocabulary and socializing abilities.
Seriously, I'm not someone that would talk about something he doesn't fully understand, and I don't think he took it offensively. If I'm mistaken then
dunno, sorry? I apologize since it's partially, if not fully, my fault that this topic got out of hand.
Quote from: krele on June 28, 2012, 07:23:52 PM
I don't see anything wrong in my word choice. Please bold the words that might seem rude and/or offensive to an adult, for future sakes of my oh-so-advanced vocabulary and socializing abilities.
Sure.
QuoteWith all due respect mate, I think you're questioning someone much more superior than you in the field we're currently discussing.
That reply was not only insensitive, but an ad hominem. You pointed out that Dustin is "superior" without actually fully addressing the point Lingus was making. Doing this takes away from fruitful discussions, even if they are hypothetical.