At the moment most of the Stick-Online community would agree that SO needs a trading system so that a player can give an item to another player. Now I'm not sure why this hasn't yet been implemented into the game. It could be that Meiun is to busy with other tasks such as SO 3, or he has attempted to code trading but has been unsuccessful. But we really do you need some sort of system to trade items.
So my idea is that Meiun should make it so player can press Ctrl + Right click to drop an item. By drop I mean make the item visible on the ground to all players so that anyone can pick it up. This idea would benefit unlucky people like me who can't even get a katana even after fighting many SF's, it could also help if someone has multiple number of items and just simply wants to give them away to players. And I assume that this would be much more simpler and faster for Meiun to code rather than a complex trading system.
I only have two problems with this idea... If two players were going to do a drop trade, and one was going to drop a DH and the other was going to drop an IS, then one of the players could quickly attempt to grab both items instead of sticking with the deal. That could be a small problem so it should be recommended that you be careful. Also my other problem is that perhaps someone could buy lots of cheap items and lay them all over stick-online. Although that wont be so much of a problem because people could easily just pick them up and press Shift + right click to delete them. But if Meiun wanted he could also just make it so items that are dropped by a player will disappear after 5 minutes if not picked up.
Give me your opinions on my idea :)
The whole idea of trading in stick-online has always been attractive to everyone. I think this would be pretty easy to code but I'm not an expert ;) I think trading will be a fact in the third version of Stick. For version 2 this would be great.
Well i dont see this coming to so 2 but i think this would be just fine in so 3. Your idea not bad its just i dont think meiun will put that much work into so2 when its suppose to be a game that not being worked on.
I'm pretty sure Meiun guaranteed some sort of trading system in v3 somewhere. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what I remember.
Anyway, that dropping thing is kind of...unbalanced. You could just say "Giving away free [item]", and then trade with whoever responds. That reduces risk of someone stealing it.
Quote from: Epicphail on July 07, 2009, 11:10:06 AM
I'm pretty sure Meiun guaranteed some sort of trading system in v3 somewhere. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what I remember.
Anyway, that dropping thing is kind of...unbalanced. You could just say "Giving away free [item]", and then trade with whoever responds. That reduces risk of someone stealing it.
Perhaps you didn't understand the whole idea of my suggestion. The basic idea is that Meiun can code this idea easier than taking a lot of his time to work on a complex trading system. Because Meiun obviously doesn't wanna spend to much time on V.2 so I have given him this suggestion about dropping items because it would be more simpler and quicker to do.
Quote from: Celson on July 07, 2009, 12:42:26 PM
Quote from: Epicphail on July 07, 2009, 11:10:06 AM
I'm pretty sure Meiun guaranteed some sort of trading system in v3 somewhere. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what I remember.
Anyway, that dropping thing is kind of...unbalanced. You could just say "Giving away free [item]", and then trade with whoever responds. That reduces risk of someone stealing it.
Perhaps you didn't understand the whole idea of my suggestion. The basic idea is that Meiun can code this idea easier than taking a lot of his time to work on a complex trading system. Because Meiun obviously doesn't wanna spend to much time on V.2 so I have given him this suggestion about dropping items because it would be more simpler and quicker to do.
your assuming its easy.
Actually this would be easy ARTgames. Easier then alot of the other ideas actually. Definitely a lot easier then a complete trading system to.
Quote from: T-Rok on July 07, 2009, 02:08:40 PM
Actually this would be easy ARTgames. Easier then alot of the other ideas actually. Definitely a lot easier then a complete trading system to.
So you what to argue about a system of a game that you did not even program?
Good idea, Celson, but I do see one more flaw in this idea. Say you were drop trading with someone at the temple. And lets say the items was a Dragoon Helmet. Say you were drop trading around say 3-4 other people. And one of them watching, decides to be a jerk, and quickly run out of nowhere and steal the drop trade. I can see some people attempting to do that.
~Looperpuck
Quote from: Looperpuck on July 07, 2009, 03:45:54 PM
Good idea, Celson, but I do see one more flaw in this idea. Say you were drop trading with someone at the temple. And lets say the items was a Dragoon Helmet. Say you were drop trading around say 3-4 other people. And one of them watching, decides to be a jerk, and quickly run out of nowhere and steal the drop trade. I can see some people attempting to do that.
~Looperpuck
They could do it how its done in those mob movies ware they goto a secret location and then some one comes and askes if they got the goods.
QuoteThey could do it how its done in those mob movies ware they goto a secret location and then some one comes and askes if they got the goods.
Heh, but do you really think stick maybe big enough for that? Remember in SOv2 before it got shut down there were at least 70 people online at once, and they were all spread out along the whole map. And don't you think that theres people that will purposely watch for the drop trade 24/7?
~Looperpuck
There will absolutely be methods of trade in V3. As for V2, while it would be fairly simple to just slap dropping of items or some other method of trade in, it would require quite a reworking of the game engine to do this in a truly secure manner.
Quote from: Meiun on July 07, 2009, 04:50:24 PM
As for V2, while it would be fairly simple to just slap dropping of items or some other method of trade in, it would require quite a reworking of the game engine to do this in a truly secure manner.
See i tould you people!
Quote from: Meiun on July 07, 2009, 04:50:24 PM
There will absolutely be methods of trade in V3.
I think this here is great. Makes me want so 3 even more.
Quote from: Meiun on July 07, 2009, 04:50:24 PM
There will absolutely be methods of trade in V3. As for V2, while it would be fairly simple to just slap dropping of items or some other method of trade in, it would require quite a reworking of the game engine to do this in a truly secure manner.
We have faith in you Meiun :D
i think its a pretty good idea :)
Meiun beat me to the punch.
Quote from: ASD! on July 07, 2009, 05:55:13 PM
Quote from: Meiun on July 07, 2009, 04:50:24 PM
There will absolutely be methods of trade in V3. As for V2, while it would be fairly simple to just slap dropping of items or some other method of trade in, it would require quite a reworking of the game engine to do this in a truly secure manner.
We have faith in you Meiun :D
I second this.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Osh
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We had dropping items in Kiox Online, it was a complete fail. People dropped every item they didn't want and beginners ended up with all the good items. This idea only works with level restrictions on items.
That or maybe everyone within the range of it being dropped should be able to see it?
Quote from: JoEL on August 22, 2009, 07:24:26 AM
That or maybe everyone within the range of it being dropped should be able to see it?
Wouldn't work either. Then people would just search everywhere for items, and if they get lucky enough, they could still get it. Especially high AGI's/people with BC and BBE. Just wait for trading.
I'm for it. I think it would be a great perk to being a donor.
Didn't this topic kind of end with meiun?
Quote from: ARTgames on August 22, 2009, 01:39:48 PM
Didn't this topic kind of end with meiun?
Agreed. I think Pat's comment just reinforces the fact that this is a bad idea. If we're going to have trading, I'd rather it done right. Not half assed. And like Meiun said, he has plans already so it's all set.
trading will lead to increased hacking i think though
Quote from: scsox on August 23, 2009, 07:54:41 PM
trading will lead to increased hacking i think though
Care to explain?
Quote from: scsox on August 23, 2009, 07:54:41 PM
trading will lead to increased hacking i think though
That makes no sense. It'll probably lead to some system abuse, sure, but I don't think it'll add to hacking. Plus, it's a simple matter to stop whoever's hacking and just perma-ban them.
Maybe he's confusing hacking with scamming. I think the largest problem would be with account-sharing. Obviously, the best way to avoid this is to just not hare your password, however, people are going to account-share anyway. Just be prepared for the consequences when you do so.
Quote from: scsox on August 23, 2009, 07:54:41 PM
trading will lead to increased hacking i think though
yeah it will give more of a intensive to try and guess peoples passwords/ social engine them. But i think the usefullness of it outwase that.
also the word hack can mean a lot of things. such as
placing data ware it's not supposed to go. aka pack editing, ram/rom editing, buffer overflows...ect (this is was your thinking of)
hardware modding and changing/replacing/rewarding/disabling ...ect
social engineering bar bets/ fooling people to give you stuff... ect
scams aka madoff ... ect
finding new ways to use things.
hacking just meanies finding a a clever way to do something. its just has been turned into a bad thing by the media. like
pandemonium pandemic. if you what to refer to bad hacking please call it black hat first.
Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacking_%28computing%29
Controversy and ambiguity
While "hack" was originally more used as a verb for "messing about" with (e.g. "I hack around with computers"), the meaning of the term has shifted over the decades since it first came into use in a computer context. As usage has spread more widely, the primary meaning of newer users of the word has shifted to one which conflicts with the original primary emphasis.
Quote from: Mystery on August 22, 2009, 11:28:12 AM
Quote from: JoEL on August 22, 2009, 07:24:26 AM
That or maybe everyone within the range of it being dropped should be able to see it?
Wouldn't work either. Then people would just search everywhere for items, and if they get lucky enough, they could still get it. Especially high AGI's/people with BC and BBE. Just wait for trading.
I said when being dropped, if they're not in range when it was dropped the item will not show up in there screen. If both people walk away from the item then remove the item.
Meiun could throw a quick drop ability together for SO2, because really? Who would hack on a server where you have donate to play, it would be a major waste.
Quote from: ASD! on August 24, 2009, 02:04:42 AM
Meiun could throw a quick drop ability together for SO2, because really? Who would hack on a server where you have donate to play, it would be a major waste.
People try to hack on games they have already invested hundreds of dollars in (World of Warcraft, Maplestory, etc etc.), even if it results in a permanent ban so all that money goes to waste, but it doesn't stop them. :/
But yeah, I would love a drop system.
And about scamming - yeah, if there is a trade system, I can guarantee people will scam alot, or at least try, especially on a free game. First people will try to find ways to abuse it, trying to find every little bug or lag related problem. And then, if the trade system is quite secure, people will just try to trick people. :/ Its really horrible. (Oh... ye olde days of UO and the stealing and stealth abilities... xD) Just never share your account, no matter what - or that crazy cool sword you got the other day just might end up on your friends account ;)
IF you get scammed you're to young to be on the internet...
As for the what ASD said, I'm sure he won't do it on SOv3, it's not something that you can just 'throw together' It'd take alot of time for meiun to do something like this.
Quote from: ARTgames on August 23, 2009, 09:47:08 PM
Quote from: scsox on August 23, 2009, 07:54:41 PM
trading will lead to increased hacking i think though
yeah it will give more of a intensive to try and guess peoples passwords/ social engine them. But i think the usefullness of it outwase that.
also the word hack can mean a lot of things. such as
placing data ware it's not supposed to go. aka pack editing, ram/rom editing, buffer overflows...ect (this is was your thinking of)
hardware modding and changing/replacing/rewarding/disabling ...ect
social engineering bar bets/ fooling people to give you stuff... ect
scams aka madoff ... ect
finding new ways to use things.
hacking just meanies finding a a clever way to do something. its just has been turned into a bad thing by the media. like pandemonium pandemic. if you what to refer to bad hacking please call it black hat first.
Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacking_%28computing%29
Controversy and ambiguity
While "hack" was originally more used as a verb for "messing about" with (e.g. "I hack around with computers"), the meaning of the term has shifted over the decades since it first came into use in a computer context. As usage has spread more widely, the primary meaning of newer users of the word has shifted to one which conflicts with the original primary emphasis.
Since you tried to explain so well, I should +karma you...
But still for trying to sound smart, and being a wannabe, I should -karma you...
He probably didn't think of hacking like that, probably just trading items from a scammed account...
Quote from: JoEL on August 25, 2009, 06:55:12 AM
IF you get scammed you're to young to be on the internet....
There are people who are teenagers and adults who could easily be dumb enough to be scammed. But scamming won't happen that much if NOBODY SHARES THEIR FREAKIN' PASSWORD. Seriously, you're not supposed to give it out to anyone. It'll only lead to trouble. And yeah, regardless of passwords, newbs could be scammed because of their inexperience in the game. But if no one tries to be a douche, I don't see that happening. (Fat chance. :P )
Trading scams can happen other ways as well. Someone will figure out how to take advantage of the trade mechanics. It could be a completely normally functioning, non-bugged trade system that someone will figure out how to exploit. This happens on online games ALL the time. It's a matter of someone putting in an item, letting the other person see it's the item they want, then when the person puts the money or equivilant item in to trade they will switch the item out for a similar looking item that is of much lesser value and the other person will trade before they realize what happened. In addition, trading systems and drop systems in particular have been notorious for methods of duplicating items.
With all of that said, I think slapping some system together (especially a drop system) is the worst possible idea for a game like this. Once people learn the tricks and start exploiting these things, the economy of the game is forever screwed over because anyone can have the best items in the game. And for people who want to play the game legitimately, they get left behind and can't compete. This is the best reason why Meiun should take his time in implementing and thoroughly testing a trade system.
Quote from: Lingus on August 25, 2009, 05:39:56 PM
Trading scams can happen other ways as well. Someone will figure out how to take advantage of the trade mechanics. It could be a completely normally functioning, non-bugged trade system that someone will figure out how to exploit. This happens on online games ALL the time. It's a matter of someone putting in an item, letting the other person see it's the item they want, then when the person puts the money or equivilant item in to trade they will switch the item out for a similar looking item that is of much lesser value and the other person will trade before they realize what happened. In addition, trading systems and drop systems in particular have been notorious for methods of duplicating items.
With all of that said, I think slapping some system together (especially a drop system) is the worst possible idea for a game like this. Once people learn the tricks and start exploiting these things, the economy of the game is forever screwed over because anyone can have the best items in the game. And for people who want to play the game legitimately, they get left behind and can't compete. This is the best reason why Meiun should take his time in implementing and thoroughly testing a trade system.
1st paragraph: Yes, I have seen this and it is a very big trouble in a lot of games.
2nd paragraph:I agree, no point in having something slap dash like this. As this would be a big part of the game, it should be done properly and test before it is introduced into the game.
A new question is does the downside of the trading system less than the upside of having it?
i what to say i think so. but as the game gets bigger im not sure.
I think a bigger problem than scams is the selling of in game items. i think this is what runes the big mmo's.
Quote from: ARTgames
A new question is does the downside of the trading system less than the upside of having it?
i what to say i think so. but as the game gets bigger im not sure.
I'm pretty sure the upsides will heavily outweigh the downsides. Plus, many people(me included) are looking forward to trading. The thing you have to understand is, in EVERY MMORPG(more commonly the big ones because there are more people, so more douches), there will always be SOME jerk(s) who tries to scam.
Quote from: ARTgamesI think a bigger problem than scams is the selling of in game items. i think this is what runes the big mmo's.
Which is why very FEW items (out of all the possible ones)are sold in the SO shops. And mainly newb ones at that.
QuoteThe thing you have to understand is, in EVERY MMORPG(more commonly the big ones because there are more people, so more douches), there will always be SOME jerk(s) who tries to scam.
Which mean the more people you have the more jerks you have. thats why i said im not sure about this when theres a lot of people.
QuoteWhich is why very FEW items (out of all the possible ones)are sold in the SO shops. And mainly newb ones at that.
Im not sure ware your going with that. yeah its true that hat shops sell less powerfull items and you halft to work for the good ones.
but what im saying is that with the in game trading system it makes it easy and possible to sell items and or gold for real money. Which is not a problem for smaller games. But if the game ever plains to get big there will more of a incentive to work for items and sell it. But as i said this is not a big portable until the millions of player mark.
Quote from: ARTgames on August 25, 2009, 09:32:05 PM
but what im saying is that with the in game trading system it makes it easy and possible to sell items and or gold for real money. Which is not a problem for smaller games. But if the game ever plains to get big there will more of a incentive to work for items and sell it. But as i said this is not a big portable until the millions of player mark.
It'll take a LOOONNGG time before this game gets to the million-player mark. Which I'm kind of glad about, I prefer MMORPG games with smaller communities. And look at what a great one we have here! ;)
...Ah, so that's what you were talking about, selling game items for real money. Well, to be honest, I completely agree with you on that front. I never liked the idea how someone could get duplicates of a really good and rare item and end up giving it to a low-level newb who he knows in real life and agrees to give him money. Maybe there could be something in the player agreement about it or whatever.
Quote from: Mystery on August 25, 2009, 09:44:31 PM
Quote from: ARTgames on August 25, 2009, 09:32:05 PM
but what im saying is that with the in game trading system it makes it easy and possible to sell items and or gold for real money. Which is not a problem for smaller games. But if the game ever plains to get big there will more of a incentive to work for items and sell it. But as i said this is not a big portable until the millions of player mark.
It'll take a LOOONNGG time before this game gets to the million-player mark. Which I'm kind of glad about, I prefer MMORPG games with smaller communities. And look at what a great one we have here! ;)
...Ah, so that's what you were talking about, selling game items for real money. Well, to be honest, I completely agree with you on that front. I never liked the idea how someone could get duplicates of a really good and rare item and end up giving it to a low-level newb who he knows in real life and agrees to give him money. Maybe there could be something in the player agreement about it or whatever.
i also agree with that post you made. i also think selling items are not fair for meiun ether.
I'm getting confused now after reading alot of your posts -
Are we talking about a trade system for SOv3, or a trade and/or drop system for SOv2? My point was that I wouldn't mind a drop system for SOv2. For SOv3, of course I want a trading system, and a thorough and well made one at that, since its a completely new game.
Quote from: Cactuscat222 on August 26, 2009, 01:30:28 AM
I'm getting confused now after reading alot of your posts -
Are we talking about a trade system for SOv3, or a trade and/or drop system for SOv2? My point was that I wouldn't mind a drop system for SOv2. For SOv3, of course I want a trading system, and a thorough and well made one at that, since its a completely new game.
This is my view too...but seeing as Meiun already turned down the option for "drop trading" in SOv2 because it would be too insecure...and has assured a functional trading system in SOv3...I don't see what is keeping this topic alive?
Quote from: Mr Pwnage on August 26, 2009, 01:43:55 AM
Quote from: Cactuscat222 on August 26, 2009, 01:30:28 AM
I'm getting confused now after reading alot of your posts -
Are we talking about a trade system for SOv3, or a trade and/or drop system for SOv2? My point was that I wouldn't mind a drop system for SOv2. For SOv3, of course I want a trading system, and a thorough and well made one at that, since its a completely new game.
This is my view too...but seeing as Meiun already turned down the option for "drop trading" in SOv2 because it would be too insecure...and has assured a functional trading system in SOv3...I don't see what is keeping this topic alive?
i guess we can start a new topic or something but was being talked about what the downsides of trading.
Quote from: Cactuscat222 on August 26, 2009, 01:30:28 AM
I'm getting confused now after reading alot of your posts -
Are we talking about a trade system for SOv3, or a trade and/or drop system for SOv2? My point was that I wouldn't mind a drop system for SOv2. For SOv3, of course I want a trading system, and a thorough and well made one at that, since its a completely new game.
I kind of answered why just slapping a drop feature on SO2 would be a bad thing. Slapping any kind of feature together that deals with item is just asking for people to exploit it in some way.
Quote from: Cactuscat222 on August 25, 2009, 05:14:52 AM
Quote from: ASD! on August 24, 2009, 02:04:42 AM
Meiun could throw a quick drop ability together for SO2, because really? Who would hack on a server where you have donate to play, it would be a major waste.
People try to hack on games they have already invested hundreds of dollars in (World of Warcraft, Maplestory, etc etc.), even if it results in a permanent ban so all that money goes to waste, but it doesn't stop them. :/
Sorry for going off-topic but when I read that I was like "Bam, thats my friend in a nutshell". He uses illegal stuff like hacks in maplestory and buy stuff for real money. He gets banned, makes a new account, buy stuff, gets banned. He has wasted like $300+ since I introduced him to maplestory.
I mean, who in the SO community right now, besides Chainsaw, would hack on SO?
Ya'll are thinking WAY too much. This is just a small donator server for a stick figure game no longer in development. Nobody is going to "abuse" or "exploit" the system. The only people who play this game are just fans, it's not open for the public to take advantage of. Also nobody is going to buy/sell items in this game for real money, it's just a !@#$ing stick figure game, who would? And what economy are you speaking of, Lingus? This game HAS no economy because it HAS no trading system. The lot of you are thinking about this game from a long-term point of view, but it doesn't HAVE a long term, the server will most likely go down when So3 comes.
Anyways, I'd greatly appreciate any kind of trading system for so2, even one as simple as dropping. I don't see why it has to be completely "secure", I'd think everyone who plays this game has enough respect for it to use it properly. But maybe I put too much faith in humans.
But I go both ways, I'm also fine with no trading whatsoever. Once trading is implimented, all the rare items are going to be much easier to acquire, and imo it would be a little boring if everyone got every item.
But the pros out weight the cons. The forums could have a new, thriving section: Trades. Gold could actually be used for something. High level people with no luck, like Cero, could get the item they've been wanting, and it would make the game that much better. And really, WHY would someone hack SO2 on a donor server, it is nothing like Maplestroy
Okay once again, we are all arguing for no point, since we aren't all on the same page.
@Luci, when I was talking about scamming and exploiting, I was talking about a trade system in SO v3, not a simple one in SOv2. Any game out there, specifically MMO's, is subject to some form of people wanting to get better than everyone else through less-than-legal means. I was saying in SOv3, as a free game and a thriving community, you are going to have to be ready for scamming and what not.
I'm all for a SOv2 drop system.
Quote from: Lucifer on August 26, 2009, 04:27:21 PM
And what economy are you speaking of, Lingus? This game HAS no economy because it HAS no trading system.
I guess I'm using the term loosely. If you think of how people view the value of an item now, even though they can't trade it, that's what I'm referring to. People will see the GS as more valuable than the SS because it is more rare and has better stats. But, if some hack or exploit were found with a drop system that allowed people to dupe items, they could dupe GS's, or any item for that matter, and the rarity of an item would no longer factor into its value at all, because anyone could get one from someone else who already has one just by duping it.
I get what you're saying, but I still think this kind of thing is going to happen no matter what. There's going to be someone, or some small group of people who will try to exploit this, regardless of the size of the community. And the fact that this is a small server just for donors means that something like that happening would be even more of a big deal. It would be a slap in the face to Meiun because this server is a thank you from him. And it would be a slap in the face to all of the donors who want to play this game legitimately. Once some exploit like duping comes out, you can't go back.
@Cactuscat: I think everyone is on the same page except you. We're talking about a potential SO2 drop system AND a fully functioning trade system for SO3.
I'm quite sure Meiun would ban the exploiter, and issue and advisory to all people who have duped item to delete, at risk of being banned, because there would be something on the log about people picking up those items
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Meiun wouldn't do everything in his power to make sure people don't exploit any systems he implements. But... that's exactly why he's NOT going to slap together a drop system for SO2. It's hard enough to make sure a system isn't exploitable, but if he were to rush something or not spend very much effort on it, there's a good chance some flaw will turn up. It's even possible that this flaw will make it so people can get away with doing it. At that point the only way Meiun will know if someone is duping is if they tell him...
I honestly don't think he's ever going to be convinced to spend the time to implement a drop system for SO2. It's not really worth the effort. The game is great as is. Adding a drop system allows too many potential possibilities for that balance to be ruined. Even if everything works as intended, it's possible that the ability to drop trade will kill some of the simplicity of the game.
I say we should all wait for SO3 to be able to trade. Keep in mind, this is coming from arguably one of the unluckiest people to play this game. If I could get someone to drop trade me an IS that would be awesome! But I'd rather not screw up the game.
True dat.
Quote from: Lingus on August 26, 2009, 06:22:18 PM
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Meiun wouldn't do everything in his power to make sure people don't exploit any systems he implements. But... that's exactly why he's NOT going to slap together a drop system for SO2. It's hard enough to make sure a system isn't exploitable, but if he were to rush something or not spend very much effort on it, there's a good chance some flaw will turn up. It's even possible that this flaw will make it so people can get away with doing it. At that point the only way Meiun will know if someone is duping is if they tell him...
I honestly don't think he's ever going to be convinced to spend the time to implement a drop system for SO2. It's not really worth the effort. The game is great as is. Adding a drop system allows too many potential possibilities for that balance to be ruined. Even if everything works as intended, it's possible that the ability to drop trade will kill some of the simplicity of the game.
I say we should all wait for SO3 to be able to trade. Keep in mind, this is coming from arguably one of the unluckiest people to play this game. If I could get someone to drop trade me an IS that would be awesome! But I'd rather not screw up the game.
this + meiuns post = nuff said.
Oh I was on the same page then.