For shame, Ubisoft.

[Lingus]

I'm going to buy Assassin's Creed 2.

I used to pirate games. The simple fact is, I have never had enough money to buy games. I figure, if I was never going to buy the game in the first place, the company is not losing a sale by me acquiring the game for free. I understand that ethically this logic has some flaws, but it works for me. The reason why I no longer pirate games is because I do not see the benefit of spending the extra effort. It is easier for me to wait until I have enough money to buy the game and the game quickly and easily downloads and installs on my computer. Pirating requires a certain amount of effort that I am no longer willing to spend. It is easier for me to deal with this DRM (which just means I have to have internet while I play this game which in effect is almost all the time so I really won't be inconvenienced 99% of the time) rather than going through the effort to find this game on some torrent, install it, make sure I have all the right pieces in place, potentially have to scrap all that if it doesn't work and find a new torrent, etc etc. It's just not worth my time.

What does bother me is that, while I can choose to not buy the game to "take a stand" against this type of DRM I still want to play the game, but I'm not going to pirate it to do so. I really wish game developers would listen to people rather than do things like this. They are still going to make tons of money on their games. They are not going to see much lost revenue from this. And as a result, they will assume that their efforts have not been wasted.

Pirating's only a problem for PC games. Just design your games for consoles and you'll be fine.

Thanks...

Actually, I think if game developers move towards products like Steam the PC gaming market would be much closer to consoles in this respect.

[Scotty]

Pirating's only a problem for PC games. Just design your games for consoles and you'll be fine.

Actually... I think that's incorrect.  I can't back that up, but I've heard of problems with say the X-Box console and such.  Again, don't quote me, but I've heard that piracy is getting tricky on that as well...

[Lingus]

Pirating's only a problem for PC games. Just design your games for consoles and you'll be fine.

Actually... I think that's incorrect.  I can't back that up, but I've heard of problems with say the X-Box console and such.  Again, don't quote me, but I've heard that piracy is getting tricky on that as well...

Oh you can definitely crack consoles. It's a lot trickier though. I'm not sure on the current gen consoles, but on the old Xbox you had to have some device installed on it. But then you could just install whatever the heck you want. I even have emulator software on it and have thousands of old console games installed from NES, SNES, N64, Genesis, etc. I'm sure you could do something similar on the current gen, but you just wouldn't be able to go online with them maybe.

[Scotty]

Pirating's only a problem for PC games. Just design your games for consoles and you'll be fine.

Actually... I think that's incorrect.  I can't back that up, but I've heard of problems with say the X-Box console and such.  Again, don't quote me, but I've heard that piracy is getting tricky on that as well...

Oh you can definitely crack consoles. It's a lot trickier though. I'm not sure on the current gen consoles, but on the old Xbox you had to have some device installed on it. But then you could just install whatever the heck you want. I even have emulator software on it and have thousands of old console games installed from NES, SNES, N64, Genesis, etc. I'm sure you could do something similar on the current gen, but you just wouldn't be able to go online with them maybe.

Like I stated in my first post, it's just a deterrent, it'll never be fool-proof.

[DarkBlade325]

Pirating's only a problem for PC games. Just design your games for consoles and you'll be fine.

I must object to that.

People, while it is alot harder, can and will pirate games over to consoles. I myself do not do so because of all the trouble and the fact I have no console as of right now. But I hear the way it works is that you download the crack, then install it onto a blank CD on your computer.

You pop it into your console, and you're good to go. I doubt that's all there is to it- you may need a hacked console of sorts for some games and I know for a fact I'm missing alot of details, but it is very possible to get cracked games on a console that uses CDs. The reason the PC is home to most pirates is because it's easier on the PC to put it simply.

[Lingus]

Pirating's only a problem for PC games. Just design your games for consoles and you'll be fine.

I must object to that.

People, while it is alot harder, can and will pirate games over to consoles. I myself do not do so because of all the trouble and the fact I have no console as of right now. But I hear the way it works is that you download the crack, then install it onto a blank CD on your computer.

You pop it into your console, and you're good to go. I doubt that's all there is to it- you may need a hacked console of sorts for some games and I know for a fact I'm missing alot of details, but it is very possible to get cracked games on a console that uses CDs.

Definitely. Consoles won't read CDs which do not have a certain feature to them. I'm not sure of the details, but the CD itself is special somehow. It's not something you can write to a normal CD by using a normal CD burner. With that in mind, for a crack like this to work (a burnt CD copy of the game) you have to have something installed on your console that allows you to load a CD which has the special feature, then remove this CD and load the burnt copy of the game. This is how my PS2 was set up. Alternatively, if the console has a HD, there is a device installed which does... something... and allows you to load some kind of OS of sorts on the hard drive which then allows you to load games on your hard drive.

[DarkBlade325]

Yeah I figured as much. Also correct me if I'm wrong, but don't console pirates have to bypass some kinda safety feature on their cracked games to go online play? Or do companies just don't bother seeing how it's a pain to thrash around in a console to hack it?

Shame Ubisoft went to such lengths though. Why is it that when most game companies try to fix something they do the exact opposite? Boggles the mind.

[Scotty]

there is a device installed which does... something...

Likely just a boot-loader, at least that's what the older model PS3's would have done to them in order to put Linux on them.

[Seifer]

Yeah I figured as much. Also correct me if I'm wrong, but don't console pirates have to bypass some kinda safety feature on their cracked games to go online play? Or do companies just don't bother seeing how it's a pain to thrash around in a console to hack it?

Shame Ubisoft went to such lengths though. Why is it that when most game companies try to fix something they do the exact opposite? Boggles the mind.

99.9% of the time, unless you draw some serious attention to yourself that microsoft looks into you specially, you won't get caught. The only time you will have an issue pirating on a colsole online is if you've pirated the game BEFORE it's offical release, because when your on there servers before the games in stores, they know something is afoot.

[Lingus]

Yeah I figured as much. Also correct me if I'm wrong, but don't console pirates have to bypass some kinda safety feature on their cracked games to go online play? Or do companies just don't bother seeing how it's a pain to thrash around in a console to hack it?

I didn't go online with either hacked console. I always assumed that they would be able to tell somehow. It's possible that they wouldn't, but it's also possible that they could.

there is a device installed which does... something...

Likely just a boot-loader, at least that's what the older model PS3's would have done to them in order to put Linux on them.

I'm not sure. This was on my old Xbox. But it was just some kind of chip with a switch on it (allowed you to turn the hack off if you wanted to load the console legit). I don't know what that chip did, but I assume it's what you're talking about.

[stick d00d]

Pirating's only a problem for PC games. Just design your games for consoles and you'll be fine.

Nope, my sister's boyfriend pirates 360 games, he has about 10+ games on blank discs.

[ARTgames]

If you want the game buy it and go online and get a crack for it. If you want nothing to do with them don't buy and don't steal it.

Just because the produck has something on it that you don't like does not give you the right to take it.

Your taking away money for people who work hard on something. Not every one who made this game was part of the team who made the drm.

[Cactuscat222]

If you want the game buy it and go online and get a crack for it. If you want nothing to do with them don't buy and don't steal it.

Just because the produck has something on it that you don't like does not give you the right to take it.

Your taking away money for people who work hard on something. Not every one who made this game was part of the team who made the drm.

This.

I've made a huge rant before, but honestly, no matter how you look at it pirating is illegal - as in, against the law. Ethically, people can try to justify and rationalize all they want, but its worthless, because you all know its the wrong thing to do, to take something without proper payment for it. (And don't go on the entire "Its not stealing, its copyright infringement" tirade. I know, and I've heard it a thousand times. Legally its different, ethically its the same.)

I'm not activist, and I don't mind pirates, as long as they are open about it or know its wrong - I hate people who try to justify it as legal or moral. Especially when it comes to things like this, people say "Oh, this has DRM on it. Because of that, it is okay and legitimate of me to download it illegally to prove my point and because the company is in the wrong here." You do NOT own the company, you do NOT have control over their products, you do NOT have a say in how they do their business, period. If a business wants to screw themselves over, or do things their own way, it is entirely up to them. You can choose to not support them by not buying it - but saying pirating is the answer isn't right. If you were a stock holder or their president, then sure... but you aren't.

[Chaos]

@Scotty:  The problem is, DRM isn't a solution, because it ISN'T a deterrent.  Once someone makes a crack, there might as well be no DRM at all, at least for the people who pirated it.  For the people who actually PAID for it, they spent money for an inferior product.

They may as well make DLC that are all viruses as the incentive to purchase their game.

@Art:  True point, one that I overlook.  Could always purchase it then just crack it.  Not sure I like the idea of them getting the money and thus encouraging them that their DRM is accepted, though...

@Cactuscat:  I make no excuses.  As I said before, there is no question about should I get the game or not.  I'm getting it, period.  If they release Conviction without this DRM, I will buy it.  If they release Conviction WITH this DRM, I will pirate it.  If they release Conviction with the DRM, and later decide to patch it to remove it, I will go purchase it at that time.

Is this legally okay?  No.

Is this ethically okay?  No.

Do I give a shit if this is legally or ethically okay?  No.

[Jake]

Oh, and Jake, DRM will not stop people, you are correct, nothing will stop people.  It is there as a deterrent.  Think of it like barb wire.  You lay it out, knowing full well that someone could easily just take a rug and throw it over the wire, then walk across it and continue on trespassing, but at least they had to get the rug to do it.

EDIT: So with all that said, for everyone here who bitches about DRM and how it's punishing those who actually pay, I challenge you to think up of an alternative solution that would be more effective on piracy, as well as not as much of a burden to buyers (and effectively earning the industry it's due revenue for their hard efforts).

It's not even barbed wire though, it's a little curb for piraters to step over. The fact is, they shouldn't do anything at all until they develop DRM that actually works, because all they're managing to do right now is alienate their customer base. What they need to do is take the time to test their DRM to higher extents instead of including it in as a minor deterrent and pissing of people who payed for the game while the piraters get away scott free. The second a crack gets out there, they need to turn the DRM off and get rid of it, because it is effectively useless at that point. Games that came out with new and improved DRM have never once stopped me from dling cracked versions of them. If this new DRM for Assassins Creed 2 actually works, then it was worth it in every way. But the second it gets cracked, it means the DRM was included in vain, and at that point the only thing they're doing is bitch slapping the paying customers by including it in future copies.

Cactus: Please, don't impose your morals that have been shaped by society and religion, on any of us. People need to make up their own minds about what is right and wrong, it is not up to society to make that decision for anyone. That's an issue I have with modern day thought processes. People modify their own morals based on laws set in place, and don't even attempt to think for themselves. When is it morally right to drink? Many would say the day you turn 21, as if on that magical day a person finally has the maturity to make that decision to drink. In my mind, most of the pirating I have done has been morally sound (not that morals really matter anyway, considering I'm not particularly religious or spiritual). Most, if not all games I have pirated I was never going to buy in the first place. The company's profits are not effected in any way by my actions. If you could goto the store with a copy machine, take a loaf of bread, and duplicate it and go home while the original bread remains at the store, would you? Does this effect anyone? No. The loaf of bread is still on store shelves and nobody ever knew what happened. This, my friends, is called a loss of a potential sale in the market. In real life however, it could mean the loss of nothing, or possibly the loss of a real sale. Analysts can't know which potential sales were actual losses or no loss at all, so they clump us all together. If my thought processes dictate that I was indeed going to buy a game that I instead pirated, I agree that I made a morally wrong choice. On the other hand, if I have no intentions of ever buying that game anyway, I know in my heart that I never was a potential sale to being with, therefore I know that I am free from doing something one might consider morally wrong. Since companies can't possibly attempt to know anyone's mindset, they go on piracy rates and attempt to falsely extrapolate that data to find out how many real world sales they are losing. Generally, they overestimate the amount of sales they lose, especially some companies that believe every loss of a potential sale is the loss of a real sale. Or in other words, they believe every single person that pirates a game would have bought it if they didn't pirate it. This is complete and utter bullshit, yet people actually believe them.

Go ahead, hate me for actually having the intelligence to make my own choices. I acknowledge the risk going into it, and don't give a shit whether people think it's wrong or not, unless it somehow effects me. Most PC games are shitty ass ports these days, and I'll be damned if I'm going to drop $60 bucks on one of them. Certain, good ports still come out, and I buy them to show my support. You got one thing majorly wrong Cactus, I DO have control over their product. And it's a very nice feeling.