Since this theory turned out to be proven wrong, im replacing it by what it these new arguments inspired me, and renamed the subject from 'Study on Rock Beast' to 'Study on Spawn/Drop Rate' since it will have a slightly different angle than the previous one. It was becoming a little bit off topic in 'LSS Theory' topic so here is a dedicated topic for it.
This theory will use binary multiples to determine probabilities of monster spawn and drop rates per monster (even though nothing forces Meiun to use binary multiple.. I just think they look cool and its just for estimations anyways..). As most of us played this for a few years now. We can get a general feeling on them. The use of having it written down here is next to null (I know its useless to know) but as you guys know I like writing these kind of thoughts down to chat about them with you.
So for those who would like to have this discussion please post your thoughts on specific rates. What I wrote down here are from the best of my knowledge and some will probably be wrong so if you feel like correcting some in could be handy to have a descent list :P.
Area #1 - Newbie village/Right of mountain
Blob
Tree Branch 1:8
Jester Hat 1:8
Fireman Hat 1:16
Feather Hat 1:16
BBB - 1:32
Tree Branch 1:8
Ninja Mask 1:16
Viking Helmet 1:16
Wooden Hammer 1:32
Great Sword 1:256
White Bunny - 1:64
Dagger 1:16
Feather Hat 1:16
Ninja Mask 1:16
Bunny Ears 1:32
Deranged Bunny Ears 1:32
Black Bunny - 1:128
Dagger 1:16
Feather Hat 1:16
Ninja Mask 1:16
Black Bunny Ears 1:32
Deranged Bunny Ears 1:32
Area #2 - Mountain
Rock Demon
Feather Hat 1:16
Short Sword 1:16
Knight Helmet 1:32
Viking Helmet 1:32
Rock Beast - 1:128
Knight Helmet 1:32
Viking Helmet 1:32
Short Sword 1:32
Stone Hammer 1:64
Dark Knight Helmet 1:64
Area #3 - Bandit Forest
Bandit
Bandit Mask 1:32
Ninja Mask 1:32
Dagger 1:32
Short Sword 1:32
Bandit Assassin - 1:64
Bandit Mask 1:32
Dagger 1:32
Bandit Cover 1:128
Spire Dagger 1:128
White Bunny - 1:64
Dagger 1:16
Feather Hat 1:16
Ninja Mask 1:16
Bunny Ears 1:32
Deranged Bunny Ears 1:32
Black Bunny - 1:128
Dagger 1:16
Feather Hat 1:16
Ninja Mask 1:16
Black Bunny Ears 1:32
Deranged Bunny Ears 1:32
Area #4 - Temple
Skeleton
Skull Mask 1:64
Top Hat 1:64
Scythe 1:64
Dark Sage - 1:256
Wizard Hat 1:32
Scythe 1:32
Dragoon Helmet 1:64
Inferno Sword 1:128
Sand Giant - 1:1024
Fedora 1:16
Green Beret 1:32
Great Sword 1:32
Slasher 1:128
Legendary Sand Sword 1:256
Area #5 - Desert before and after temple
Cactus
Whip 1:64
Wooden Hammer 1:64
Dagger 1:64
Frog Hat 1:128
Froggy Hat 1:128
Sand Fiend - 1:8
Pirate Hat 1:64
Katana 1:64
Great Sword 1:128
Dark Sage - 1:256
Wizard Hat 1:32
Scythe 1:32
Dragoon Helmet 1:64
Inferno Sword 1:128
Sand Giant - 1:1024
Fedora 1:16
Green Beret 1:32
Great Sword 1:32
Slasher 1:128
Legendary Sand Sword 1:256
Get out with your math.
It's bollocks. Every 'spawn' point in the game has set monsters it can spawn, and, based on some random chance (sorry, it IS random), it will decide which of the monsters to spawn, and spawn it. Until the monster attached to a particular spawn point is destroyed, it will not spawn another one. Killing monsters makes bosses spawn faster because you're freeing up the spawn point, and giving it another roll of the die to try and potentially spawn something bigger.
That's as complex as it gets. :-\
The only real correction I have to what Chaos said is that many "spawn points" can have numerous monsters "attached" to them at once, not just one as he implied. But once it has reached that cap (whatever it may be) it won't spawn more until some of the ones it already has are killed.
Cool thanks for making it so clear :P
You know why the monsters don't have health bars? Because number crunching sucks, and isn't fun. Fun is the unknown. Let's have fun.
Quote from: Mr Pwnage on September 10, 2010, 11:00:46 PM
You know why the monsters don't have health bars? Because number crunching sucks, and isn't fun. Fun is the unknown. Let's have fun.
Ur right, I'll keep my studies for myself.
I see it seems to annoy honorable members of the community.
I do enjoy not knowing.. I just also enjoy figuring things out and all :P
Edit :
Quote from: Meiun on September 10, 2010, 10:50:47 PM
The only real correction I have to what Chaos said is that many "spawn points" can have numerous monsters "attached" to them at once, not just one as he implied. But once it has reached that cap (whatever it may be) it won't spawn more until some of the ones it already has are killed.
Is it random as in a % based randomness or a % based + fix value to avoid spawning many by coincidence ?
Quote from: Mr Pwnage on September 10, 2010, 11:00:46 PM
You know why the monsters don't have health bars? Because number crunching sucks, and isn't fun. Fun is the unknown. Let's have fun.
Exactly. I most certainly could have added health bars, as well as having damage be displayed and whatnot within the game. But one thing I really dislike about a lot of modern games is that they have been focusing way too much on all the numbers and stats, ultimately making the gameplay more and more boring while they put more focus on "stats" and all that BS. I wanted the focus of the game to actually be playing the game. All the stats and other stuff should just be used to support and aid in making the gameplay fun, not as the games focus.
Edit: And don't worry, it dosn't bug me at all that people are interested in figuring this sortof thing out. It's actually kindof amusing if anything. I am simply explaining why it is that I made it the way I did. Anyone who is interested in the finer details is welcome to be that way. Just don't expect me to go designing the game around helping you figure that stuff out lol.
Quote from: Mr Pwnage on September 10, 2010, 11:00:46 PM
You know why the monsters don't have health bars? Because number crunching sucks, and isn't fun. Fun is the unknown. Let's have fun.
OBJECTION! (http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=4292835)
Number crunching is helpful....to an extent. Having fun is more important. :)
Also, I'm pretty sure this was made clear WAYYYY earlier. :-\
Quote from: Prosper on September 10, 2010, 11:06:13 PM
Quote from: Mr Pwnage on September 10, 2010, 11:00:46 PM
You know why the monsters don't have health bars? Because number crunching sucks, and isn't fun. Fun is the unknown. Let's have fun.
Ur right, I'll keep my studies for myself. I see it seems to annoy honorable members of the community.
I do enjoy not knowing.. I just also enjoy figuring things out and all :P
Edit :
Quote from: Meiun on September 10, 2010, 10:50:47 PM
The only real correction I have to what Chaos said is that many "spawn points" can have numerous monsters "attached" to them at once, not just one as he implied. But once it has reached that cap (whatever it may be) it won't spawn more until some of the ones it already has are killed.
Is it random as in a % based randomness or a % based + fix value to avoid spawning many by coincidence ?
Well by all means keep posting what you please, it's not annoying at all really since you at least put forth effort and know grammar. I was more just making a blunt point more than anything, don't let me stop you.
Quote from: Prosper on September 10, 2010, 11:06:13 PM
Ur right, I'll keep my studies for myself. I see it seems to annoy honorable members of the community.
Nah, I was just trying to be cool and bolster your ego by implying I'm of a lower intelligence. We're all honorable here :3
OMG STOP POSTING.... >_< lol. could not get my post in.
He does have fun doing this and your not required to do what he does to play the game so I see nothing wrong here. :/ Seems like a win win.
Any way some other points bought up in this topic kinda makes me want to test things. Thank you. Keep doing it if Meiun does not mind.
Also Prosper I would like to see further studies. As sure as the other people do that you listed at the top of your post.
Ive
barred it out then :P.
Also
Quote from: Meiun on September 10, 2010, 11:08:25 PM
Quote from: Mr Pwnage on September 10, 2010, 11:00:46 PM
You know why the monsters don't have health bars? Because number crunching sucks, and isn't fun. Fun is the unknown. Let's have fun.
Exactly. I most certainly could have added health bars, as well as having damage be displayed and whatnot within the game. But one thing I really dislike about a lot of modern games is that they have been focusing way too much on all the numbers and stats, ultimately making the gameplay more and more boring while they put more focus on "stats" and all that BS.
Eversince my early teenage years(im 25 now) I had always thought a simple Stick figure MMO would be cool to play. When I originaly found SO v1 I think there were just like pseudo-bandits in a black and white city. I also recall another early version with black and white blobs and nothing more. Then another release with Rock demons.
Since I always get spawn killed back then I gave up on trying to get on farther but hoped the project would progress. Far later after I found SO v2 1 month before public server goes down so I was very glad to play just enough to have horrible cravings for the following 10 months where it was shut down.
All this to say that if I dedicate time to this game its because its really fun and different. You've made it even better than I imagined a Stick MMO could be. And im sure S.O. 3 will be even better :).
This game is a good refuge from all those Korean MMOs and such...
Keep up the work, even though only like 50 ppl know about this game .. (such a waste ... everyone should play SO.. at least in the 10-30 age bracket)
Thanks a lot man, I genuinely appreciate it =) Also, just for the record, when the game was public there were nearly 30,000 game accounts :P So I definitely think it's more than 50. But I know what you mean either way haha. But yeah, should probly try not to get too far off topic here.
Prosper sorry to spam your topic but do you have a msn im or aim or something? I kinda wish i could pm.
Quote from: ARTgames on September 11, 2010, 02:09:11 PM
Prosper sorry to spam your topic but do you have a msn im or aim or something? I kinda wish i could pm.
My gaming email is sariak@live.ca, I'l try to log on MSN or at worst u can email me I often check them.
Okay let's get back on topic now.
Since the spawn system has been clarified, (thanks to Chaos and Meiun... and other i guess), allow me to modify my theory then.
Since on average we still get to spawn 1-2 RB per hour killing 6 rd every 2 minutes...
This is a ratio of 180 rd per hour. Divide that by 1.5 (average between 1-2 rb per hour) you get 120.
Now a more logical binary based ratio would be 1:128 :) (or 1:1000 0000 if it was to be expressed in binaries
So when you kill a RD you have 1 chance out of 128 that a RB will spawn :)
Quote from: Prosper on September 11, 2010, 08:43:56 PM
Okay let's get back on topic now.
Since the spawn system has been clarified, (thanks to Chaos and Meiun... and other i guess), allow me to modify my theory then.
Since on average we still get to spawn 1-2 RB per hour killing 6 rd every 2 minutes...
This is a ratio of 180 rd per hour. Divide that by 1.5 (average between 1-2 rb per hour) you get 120.
Now a more logical binary based ratio would be 1:128 :) (or 1:1000 0000 if it was to be expressed in binaries
So when you kill a RD you have 1 chance out of 128 that a RB will spawn :)
Except that it's made in game maker, so the 'binary based ratio' is really kind of irrelevant. Meiun can set the chance to be whatever he wants. Granted, he COULD set it to 1 out of 128, but there is no specific reason it has to be that.
Quote from: Chaos on September 11, 2010, 10:16:12 PM
Quote from: Prosper on September 11, 2010, 08:43:56 PM
Okay let's get back on topic now.
Since the spawn system has been clarified, (thanks to Chaos and Meiun... and other i guess), allow me to modify my theory then.
Since on average we still get to spawn 1-2 RB per hour killing 6 rd every 2 minutes...
This is a ratio of 180 rd per hour. Divide that by 1.5 (average between 1-2 rb per hour) you get 120.
Now a more logical binary based ratio would be 1:128 :) (or 1:1000 0000 if it was to be expressed in binaries
So when you kill a RD you have 1 chance out of 128 that a RB will spawn :)
Except that it's made in game maker, so the 'binary based ratio' is really kind of irrelevant. Meiun can set the chance to be whatever he wants. Granted, he COULD set it to 1 out of 128, but there is no specific reason it has to be that.
Even if I were programming im assembly language binary would still be pretty much useless for that sortof stuff haha.
Regardless its kind of relative.. and only determines degree of rarity. So I renamed the whole topic with some complete estimations :P.
EDIT: Sry, didn't read whole topic...
Now what would really be interesting is to have a group of people dedicated to recording every single kill that they make and every single drop (including amount of gold). With enough data of that kind, you could come up with some relatively accurate drop rates.
The only flaw that I see in that method is the experience/drop "threshhold". It is difficult to know if you have hit the damage threshhold (unless you are the only person killing the monster from spawn to death). If you aren't certain of that fact, then the data you get is useless. Including any monsters killed at lower than the full threshhold would throw off the drop rate.
The only thing I could think of that would give any sort of clue would be to include the gold amount, and use that as a kind of factor to determine if you have hit threshhold or not. You could take every kill of a given monster, and use the amount of gold received for each one. The max gold received for any of the kills would become the base for 100% threshhold. You could then determine an error factor by taking the gold as a percentage of the max. You would assume that any kill that received less than 100% of the max would be the respective percentage of the threshhold, and use that percentage with drops as well.
The flaw in that method is that the amount of gold received is probably randomized to a certain extent. You receive the most gold at 100% threshhold, but certainly not exactly the same every time. So in many cases, you would probably have an inaccurate percentage of threshhold. The only way around that would be to determine the range of gold received at max threshhold. But to do that, you'd have to solo the monster several times (the more times the more accurate). And even then I would assume there would be some amount of overlap.
In conclusion (TL;DR) it would be cool to try to find out drop rates based on actual drops, but seems like it would be a bit too complicated to have the data be accurate in any way.
As long as it keeps our neurons busy.. its a win-win situation :P.
I've based the RB spawn on my experience and the sh and dkh spawn rate on my signatures hunt log for prosper. (considering ive got only one rare drop of each in 82 kills)
I think treshold varies depending on the monster.. I mean ppl hitting a sf once with a katana might be equivalent to stamming several time son a SG and when SG dies .. many ppl get treshold. On a sf at most 4-5 ppl can get full drop rate to my guessing.
As on a SG 10-15 ppl ??
So meaning each Monster has its own Treshold in terms of % damage you need to deal before getting full loot/exp from it.
DATA on RB :
Rb #1 : 168 gold (soloed)
Rb #2 : 131 gold (with other but Im sure I hit treshold)
Yes, I believe that is an accepted and/or confirmed fact about damage threshholds. Each monster has a specific percentage of its health as the amount of damage one must reach or exceed in order to have full drop and experience rate. Obviously, with some monsters (like a blob) this means only a few people can reach that threshhold wheras with others (like the SG) many people can. The point I was trying to make is that no one knows for certain when they have reached that threshhold. You kind of have an idea depending on how much gold you get after you kill a monster, but if many other people are hitting the monster you can never be entirely certain. The only sure way to know is to solo the monster.
I get threshold on a BA in just a tidg over one hit. I can tell you that much. One hit with my Hyperion, and even a fist and I get threshold.