How many of you actually read those paragraphs before signing up or activating something?
Lol I never do, by habit... just seems it's all a bunch of unimportant crap to me..
I don't read them because im a fearless bastard
I'll skim the top and bottom, and read the middle. The middle is where they hide all the important stuff due to people assuming all they need to know is at the beginning and the end.
Sometimes the Terms of Use/Service can be ridiculous. Apple's terms are over 50 pages and Xbox LIVE's terms take literally 5 minutes of scrolling to get to the bottom. I myself never bother reading them, most of the time because I don't feel like it and that a lot of the stuff is common sense.
I do not read that small novel they put in my installers/ sign ups. On most pieces of software I would spend more time reading it then ever using the service its self.
It's simple corporate shenanigans. They write !@#$ing college essays about their products and I bet you they sneak in little "read the fine print" bits right in the middle of it all, so when people whine about something, they can pull the "its on the terms you agreed to lol get out" card.
That being said I bet 0 people here have read any ToSes in their lifetime, so that's just another tactic companies pull to throw down some curveballs if the situation requires them.
Also, nah I haven't read any myself.
There are limitations to what they can do regardless of what they say in there some times. No one is going to consult there lawyer for installing Flash on there pc just to understand the tos. :P Yes that was a bit of an overexaggeration.
But its a lie to say I have never red any tos. I have red Stick Online's. :D
Quote from: Snakeman on March 07, 2011, 06:35:21 PM
It's simple corporate shenanigans. They write !@#$ing college essays about their products and I bet you they sneak in little "read the fine print" bits right in the middle of it all, so when people whine about something, they can pull the "its on the terms you agreed to lol get out" card.
That being said I bet 0 people here have read any ToSes in their lifetime, so that's just another tactic companies pull to throw down some curveballs if the situation requires them.
Also, nah I haven't read any myself.
While now I do what I said previously, I have fully read the Mcafee, Virtual Clone Drive, Playstation Network, and iTunes ToS'
It depends, if it's for something I'm not familiar with or seems sketchy, I'll read the ToS. But usually, I won't.
I've read the ToS for Lunia and DeviantArt. Mainly because people fk up so bad on DA and don't know the definition of art theft, it's a good thing to read...
I skip the forum registration ToS's. They're all pretty much the same thing, regardless of what provider.
Am I the only one who actually takes time to read everything in the ToSs I need to agree to, just for the sake of being thorough and having less of a chance of being surprised by any 'immediate service modifications' or unexpected issues? >_>
I always always always read the Terms of agreement. Am i the only one who takes the time to read them? I love staying on the video games and i like reading so there you have it. *sarcastic*
Quote from: Mystery on March 08, 2011, 08:02:00 PM
Am I the only one who actually takes time to read everything in the ToSs I need to agree to, just for the sake of being thorough and having less of a chance of being surprised by any 'immediate service modifications' or unexpected issues? >_>
Apparently.
For software and such, I typically won't bother, as it is quite a bit to read through, and requires comprehension of a rather extreme legal vocabulary. There are however other agreements outside of software ToS's that I read at least two times over. Things like leases or employment agreements, mostly because I've had threats of law suits over them. Hell, I've even paid for legal assistance with understanding an employment agreement, mostly because $500 dollars spent on understanding what I can and cannot do is much better than $40k in court and lawyer fees had I not done the former.
Quote from: Scotty on March 09, 2011, 11:45:07 AM
For software and such, I typically won't bother, as it is quite a bit to read through, and requires comprehension of a rather extreme legal vocabulary. There are however other agreements outside of software ToS's that I read at least two times over. Things like leases or employment agreements, mostly because I've had threats of law suits over them. Hell, I've even paid for legal assistance with understanding an employment agreement, mostly because $500 dollars spent on understanding what I can and cannot do is much better than $40k in court and lawyer fees had I not done the former.
Those wouldn't be considered ToS. Definitely have to read leases, loan docs, employment agreements... anything that will actually affect you and your life. ToS on a game, software, hardware, or other such thing is basically pointless. It's a CYA for the company. I mean, most of it's common sense, and/or it is just covering the company's liability or rights, so in effect you don't really have to do anything with it except be bound by those terms. It won't affect you, and so long as you use common sense you don't have to worry.
One place you have to look out is on software licensing. Depending on the wording it can affect exactly how you can use the software. For example the difference between "designated user" versus "login". In other words, if you have 5 people using it, you need 5 licenses. Versus, you might have 5 people using it at a given time, but a total of 10 people might be using it at different times. In that case, you still need 10 licenses, not 5. It's not a big deal if you're just an individual, but if you're a business it can have pretty drastic consequences if you get caught using the licenses illegally.
Especially since most game ToS basically all say the same thing.... x.x
I'll put it to ya this way, in relation to Sony and their recent efforts to thwart the jailbreaking of their precious gaming console:
Use common sense. By that, I mean think about what you are doing with someone's software/hardware. You should be able to comprehend/determine whether or not what you are doing is going to be considered controversial (not right or wrong, but up for debate depending on your audience). If you are planning on hacking away at something, you probably are aware that there is a good chance that the company whom created that something might not like it. If it is at all questionable, read the ToS, and make damn sure you understand it. Just because it says something that says you "can't do this-or-that" doesn't necessarily mean that it'll hold up should someone sue you, but you at least have an understanding that it might invoke a law-suit.
Case in point, from experience (yes, I went through this a month and a half ago), my company threatened to sue me over a violation of the non-compete clause in my employment agreement (not a ToS, but still a legal binding agreement). I won't get too far into it, but I failed to read the entire agreement (specifically that portion), and did not have any legal guidance. As soon as I was told that if I didn't do "something", they told me that they legally bar me from going to another company, using my agreement as ammunition. I read through the agreement, and spent an entire week studying my scenario, reading up on similar law suits, and discovered that I would have had a fighting chance at beating them if they tried to sue, not only that, I could counter-sue for numerous offenses and rob them dry. All eventually settled when I scared them with a two weeks notice, and they backed down immediately, as they were going to lose substantial revenue from me leaving, and struck a deal, but that didn't come without a few professionally written and carefully executed jabs at people with regards to character on my part, but alas, my cock is bigger.
Quote from: Scotty on March 10, 2011, 02:41:42 PM
I'll put it to ya this way, in relation to Sony and their recent efforts to thwart the jailbreaking of their precious gaming console:
Use common sense. By that, I mean think about what you are doing with someone's software/hardware. You should be able to comprehend/determine whether or not what you are doing is going to be considered controversial (not right or wrong, but up for debate depending on your audience). If you are planning on hacking away at something, you probably are aware that there is a good chance that the company whom created that something might not like it. If it is at all questionable, read the ToS, and make damn sure you understand it. Just because it says something that says you "can't do this-or-that" doesn't necessarily mean that it'll hold up should someone sue you, but you at least have an understanding that it might invoke a law-suit.
Case in point, from experience (yes, I went through this a month and a half ago), my company threatened to sue me over a violation of the non-compete clause in my employment agreement (not a ToS, but still a legal binding agreement). I won't get too far into it, but I failed to read the entire agreement (specifically that portion), and did not have any legal guidance. As soon as I was told that if I didn't do "something", they told me that they legally bar me from going to another company, using my agreement as ammunition. I read through the agreement, and spent an entire week studying my scenario, reading up on similar law suits, and discovered that I would have had a fighting chance at beating them if they tried to sue, not only that, I could counter-sue for numerous offenses and rob them dry. All eventually settled when I scared them with a two weeks notice, and they backed down immediately, as they were going to lose substantial revenue from me leaving, and struck a deal, but that didn't come without a few professionally written and carefully executed jabs at people with regards to character on my part, but alas, my cock is bigger.
Well played good sir. Hope you got some nice cash out of that. :P
Quote from: T-Rok on March 10, 2011, 04:29:37 PM
Quote from: Scotty on March 10, 2011, 02:41:42 PM
I'll put it to ya this way, in relation to Sony and their recent efforts to thwart the jailbreaking of their precious gaming console:
Use common sense. By that, I mean think about what you are doing with someone's software/hardware. You should be able to comprehend/determine whether or not what you are doing is going to be considered controversial (not right or wrong, but up for debate depending on your audience). If you are planning on hacking away at something, you probably are aware that there is a good chance that the company whom created that something might not like it. If it is at all questionable, read the ToS, and make damn sure you understand it. Just because it says something that says you "can't do this-or-that" doesn't necessarily mean that it'll hold up should someone sue you, but you at least have an understanding that it might invoke a law-suit.
Case in point, from experience (yes, I went through this a month and a half ago), my company threatened to sue me over a violation of the non-compete clause in my employment agreement (not a ToS, but still a legal binding agreement). I won't get too far into it, but I failed to read the entire agreement (specifically that portion), and did not have any legal guidance. As soon as I was told that if I didn't do "something", they told me that they legally bar me from going to another company, using my agreement as ammunition. I read through the agreement, and spent an entire week studying my scenario, reading up on similar law suits, and discovered that I would have had a fighting chance at beating them if they tried to sue, not only that, I could counter-sue for numerous offenses and rob them dry. All eventually settled when I scared them with a two weeks notice, and they backed down immediately, as they were going to lose substantial revenue from me leaving, and struck a deal, but that didn't come without a few professionally written and carefully executed jabs at people with regards to character on my part, but alas, my cock is bigger.
Well played good sir. Hope you got some nice cash out of that. :P
Never went to court luckily, but I am getting a $15k raise with the next company.... Doing the
exact same thing I'm doing right now, same office, same seat, same responsibilities, just more money! =D
Quote from: Scotty on March 10, 2011, 06:12:58 PM
Quote from: T-Rok on March 10, 2011, 04:29:37 PM
Quote from: Scotty on March 10, 2011, 02:41:42 PM
I'll put it to ya this way, in relation to Sony and their recent efforts to thwart the jailbreaking of their precious gaming console:
Use common sense. By that, I mean think about what you are doing with someone's software/hardware. You should be able to comprehend/determine whether or not what you are doing is going to be considered controversial (not right or wrong, but up for debate depending on your audience). If you are planning on hacking away at something, you probably are aware that there is a good chance that the company whom created that something might not like it. If it is at all questionable, read the ToS, and make damn sure you understand it. Just because it says something that says you "can't do this-or-that" doesn't necessarily mean that it'll hold up should someone sue you, but you at least have an understanding that it might invoke a law-suit.
Case in point, from experience (yes, I went through this a month and a half ago), my company threatened to sue me over a violation of the non-compete clause in my employment agreement (not a ToS, but still a legal binding agreement). I won't get too far into it, but I failed to read the entire agreement (specifically that portion), and did not have any legal guidance. As soon as I was told that if I didn't do "something", they told me that they legally bar me from going to another company, using my agreement as ammunition. I read through the agreement, and spent an entire week studying my scenario, reading up on similar law suits, and discovered that I would have had a fighting chance at beating them if they tried to sue, not only that, I could counter-sue for numerous offenses and rob them dry. All eventually settled when I scared them with a two weeks notice, and they backed down immediately, as they were going to lose substantial revenue from me leaving, and struck a deal, but that didn't come without a few professionally written and carefully executed jabs at people with regards to character on my part, but alas, my cock is bigger.
Well played good sir. Hope you got some nice cash out of that. :P
Never went to court luckily, but I am getting a $15k raise with the next company.... Doing the exact same thing I'm doing right now, same office, same seat, same responsibilities, just more money! =D
Heh.. so awesome. I want your job. xD