Well, just like the title says, this is something that popped into my head on day and never really concluded. So I figured I would bring it to the forum to get some opinions. Now, this is a completely hypothetical situation:
So, in the United states, there is a pair of Siamese twins whom of which are jointed at the waste, each having their own upper bodies but share the same two legs. Now, twin number 2 is a little crazy...he gets mad at him mom for taking his cell phone, and because twin number 2 has some issues, at night he walks into their parents bed room and stabs his mom to death. Twin number 1 tries all he can to stop twin number 2 but ends up unable. The dad witnesses this, and in court makes it clear that twin number 2 was completely responsible and twin number 1 is completely innocent. Here's where things get tricky: What is the judge supposed to do? He can't send twin number 2 to jail because twin number 1 is attached to him. But at the same time he can't let twin number 2 get away with murder.
So here's my question for you all: What do you think the judge should do and why?
Did that actually happen? Gotta be weird sharing your legs with another person...
Quote from: foG on March 31, 2010, 01:46:08 PM
Did that actually happen? Gotta be weird sharing your legs with another person...
Well Siamese twins are real, I know some cases where they have been jointed by the head. This circumstance is hypothetical though, but yes there are many Siamese twins in the world.
http://www.slate.com/id/2240595/pagenum/all/
I found that. It's pretty long, but a rather interesting read.
One thing I think could happen is have them get surgery to separate them, then put the one who did it in jail.. unlikely but it works..
Quote from: stick d00d on March 31, 2010, 03:03:37 PM
One thing I think could happen is have them get surgery to separate them, then put the one who did it in jail.. unlikely but it works..
The article I found goes into that detail. Depending on where they're joined, alot of times seperation isn't possible without killing one of the twins. Sometimes they share internal organs.
The thing is, there's so few conjoined twins in the world that so few of them have actually murdered someone.
Another possibility I would think is they could be an accessory, because they knew what was going on but didn't try hard enough to stop it. Because if you think about it, you could just poke your twin in the eyes. Sure he may go blind, but it's awfully hard to kill someone when you can't see them ;P
Quote from: stick d00d on March 31, 2010, 03:03:37 PM
One thing I think could happen is have them get surgery to separate them, then put the one who did it in jail.. unlikely but it works..
First off, you can't be forced to undergo surgery. Second, in many cases, this one included, unless they are joined my limbs like hands separation is usually not an option. They are sharing the same vital organs in this case so they can't be separated.
And DT I read your link...seems the article doesn't have a defined way of handling either. I'd like to see an actual serious case involving situation like this just to see what happens...heh.
EDIT: Responding to DT's sneaky second post: Well assuming it did happen I am trying to figure out what would happen. And I'm sure the judge wouldn't accuse twin 1 as an accessory because the dad clearly described that twin 1 tried to stop twin 2 but twin 2 over powered twin 1 and killed their mom...in my example anyways. (Twin 2 is jacked!)
Though I am still wondering what if you were the judge in this scenario what YOU all would do. What would YOU make the verdict?
If the twin was crazy he would seek medical attention, not necessarily jail time.
Quote from: NotoriousM4^ on March 31, 2010, 03:29:37 PM
If the twin was crazy he would seek medical attention, not necessarily jail time.
By some issues I meant he's an asshole. Medically there is nothing wrong with him...twin number 2 is just a cold blooded killer.
Quote from: Mr Pwnage on March 31, 2010, 03:52:25 PM
Quote from: NotoriousM4^ on March 31, 2010, 03:29:37 PM
If the twin was crazy he would seek medical attention, not necessarily jail time.
By some issues I meant he's an asshole. Medically there is nothing wrong with him...twin number 2 is just a cold blooded killer.
Then he's not a Siamese Twin. Is this supposed to be a riddle?
My personal opinion, and my feeling on what would actually happen, is that they would both be put in jail. It would be more important to put the murderer in jail than it would be to have the innocent one go free.
Quote from: Mr Pwnage on March 31, 2010, 02:00:14 PM
Quote from: foG on March 31, 2010, 01:46:08 PM
Did that actually happen? Gotta be weird sharing your legs with another person...
Well Siamese twins are real, I know some cases where they have been jointed by the head. This circumstance is hypothetical though, but yes there are many Siamese twins in the world.
I didn't mean if there existed Siamese twins, I know they do, I meant if there actually were Siamese twins killing there own mom.
Quote from: foG on March 31, 2010, 05:06:41 PM
Quote from: Mr Pwnage on March 31, 2010, 02:00:14 PM
Quote from: foG on March 31, 2010, 01:46:08 PM
Did that actually happen? Gotta be weird sharing your legs with another person...
Well Siamese twins are real, I know some cases where they have been jointed by the head. This circumstance is hypothetical though, but yes there are many Siamese twins in the world.
I didn't mean if there existed Siamese twins, I know they do, I meant if there actually were Siamese twins killing there own mom.
Oh no I just made this up.
@ Lingus: I see what you are saying, but assume your that innocent twin, I'm sure you and many others would feel it wrong to put a completely innocent person in jail. Just a quick thought...Maybe they would consider "life house arrest", and twin #2 can only leave when twin #1 is doing something? Like wear one of those ankle bracelets?
I'd hand the innocent twin a knife and tell him/her that he/she needs to sever him/herself from the evil twin, or go to jail with 'em.
The way our judicial system is, they will more then likely put the twins in jail for 20 some years, Then they will be released and be put on probation or something like that.
But thats just my opinion, flame me if you wish.
Quote from: Mr Pwnage on March 31, 2010, 06:01:34 PM@ Lingus: I see what you are saying, but assume your that innocent twin, I'm sure you and many others would feel it wrong to put a completely innocent person in jail. Just a quick thought...Maybe they would consider "life house arrest", and twin #2 can only leave when twin #1 is doing something? Like wear one of those ankle bracelets?
I understand your point completely. But like I said, the priority is on keeping the murderer in jail. If it means having an innocent person in jail as well then so be it. I'm pretty sure that happens all the time anyways. When a trial goes through and someone who is in fact innocent is declared guilty, it's the same thing. It's the cost of our judicial system.
Quote from: Lingus on March 31, 2010, 08:41:24 PM
Quote from: Mr Pwnage on March 31, 2010, 06:01:34 PM@ Lingus: I see what you are saying, but assume your that innocent twin, I'm sure you and many others would feel it wrong to put a completely innocent person in jail. Just a quick thought...Maybe they would consider "life house arrest", and twin #2 can only leave when twin #1 is doing something? Like wear one of those ankle bracelets?
I understand your point completely. But like I said, the priority is on keeping the murderer in jail. If it means having an innocent person in jail as well then so be it. I'm pretty sure that happens all the time anyways. When a trial goes through and someone who is in fact innocent is declared guilty, it's the same thing. It's the cost of our judicial system.
Also something discussed in the article I found... Where an idea was that they'd put the siamese twins in jail, but the innocent twin would get some sort of compensation, like financial. Because, apparently wrongly accused people who are put in jail and are later found innocent get a fairly large sum of money as compensation. At least that's what I read....
It also goes on to say that the guilty tiwn, once out of jail(depending on the crime)could become a registered sex offender, or have negative marks on his record, whereas the innocent one would get only benefits.
which thinking about it, if you give the innocent one financial benefits, it would ultimately benefit the guilty twin also... lol. Like if the inocent one bought a house, went on vacation, etc, the guilty one might not get to decide what to do with the money, but he'd benefit from it.
Ultimately, There really isn't ONE single way to answer this question. It depends on the situation & severity of the crime.
@MrPwnage: I recall somewhere in the article british siamese twins were legally forced to be seperated. Though I don't remember what the situation was in that case or how long ago.. but it's in there somewhere :x
I say put the bad twin behind bars, and let the good one sit on the outside of the bars with TV out of view of his criminal brother, a nice bed, and a butler that brings him tea and crumpets all day that he isnt aloud to give to his brother.
Quote from: Meiun on April 01, 2010, 12:40:13 AM
I say put the bad twin behind bars, and let the good one sit on the outside of the bars with TV out of view of his criminal brother, a nice bed, and a butler that brings him tea and crumpets all day that he isnt aloud to give to his brother.
well, i can see what you are saying, but i don't see how, as they are joined still, and as pwnage said, share the same vitals, but only share the legs. wait, that doesn't add up...
Put the bad one in a leash.
Quote from: Meiun on April 01, 2010, 12:40:13 AM
I say put the bad twin behind bars, and let the good one sit on the outside of the bars with TV out of view of his criminal brother, a nice bed, and a butler that brings him tea and crumpets all day that he isnt aloud to give to his brother.
One problem: They share the same digestive systems, so the nutrients would pamper both of them :o .
@ DT: Yeah I read that bit about the not losing right IE sex offender and whatnot. But that wasn't saying that the good twin would get benefits, it's just saying that it wouldn't lose rights. So basically the post-felon punishments apply to twin 2 but twin 1 is exempt from them. As far as monetary compensation goes, I think with that set of logic we would be closer to getting as fair and just as possible. Also it seems that many people are suggesting separation of some sort. I just had another brilliant idea though:
Twin number 2 must wear handcuffs the length of his life sentence and must where a blindfold the length of his life sentence. So that way, he is basically shut out of life by not being able to see or use his hands. I suppose you would even fasten titanium ear plugs into him and nose plugs so that he can't hear or smell either. Might be getting a bit extreme though...
Quote from: DivineLegend on April 01, 2010, 12:43:04 AM
Quote from: Meiun on April 01, 2010, 12:40:13 AM
I say put the bad twin behind bars, and let the good one sit on the outside of the bars with TV out of view of his criminal brother, a nice bed, and a butler that brings him tea and crumpets all day that he isnt aloud to give to his brother.
well, i can see what you are saying, but i don't see how, as they are joined still, and as pwnage said, share the same vitals, but only share the legs. wait, that doesn't add up...
Ehhh I was kidding anyways :P
The thing you have to consider, however, is that you could also potentially argue that twin #2 isn't exactly innocent, since he didn't STOP twin #1. I mean, god, you share the same body, or at least part of it. How could one POSSIBLY get away with, say, murdering someone, without the other twin not stopping him? What's twin #1 gonna do, kill twin #2? Considering they share organs, and thus, veins and arteries, you'd pretty much be committing suicide.
I think the reason the question is so difficult, is because it's asking about a situation that is almost impossible... :-\
There was a movie with this situation called "Stuck On You". When one of the twins got into jail they pretty much did what Meiun said. They put the guy who committed the crime in jail, closed the bars between them, and gave the other guy a TV and a sandwich. o_O
Quote from: Chaos on April 01, 2010, 02:41:48 AM
The thing you have to consider, however, is that you could also potentially argue that twin #2 isn't exactly innocent, since he didn't STOP twin #1. I mean, god, you share the same body, or at least part of it. How could one POSSIBLY get away with, say, murdering someone, without the other twin not stopping him?
It's possible for one of the twins to overpower the other, or perhaps one of them is sleeping or unconcious. I dunno....
What would happen if one twin #2 stabbed twin #1 in the face?
Would they both die?
Feed 'em arsenic. They're a freak of nature anyways...
Quote from: Kbob32 on April 01, 2010, 04:04:13 PM
What would happen if one twin #2 stabbed twin #1 in the face?
Would they both die?
Well, as I stated, they are sharing organs, so they are (theoretically) sharing veins and arteries at some point as well. So yeah.
Quote from: DivineLegend on April 01, 2010, 12:43:04 AM
Quote from: Meiun on April 01, 2010, 12:40:13 AM
I say put the bad twin behind bars, and let the good one sit on the outside of the bars with TV out of view of his criminal brother, a nice bed, and a butler that brings him tea and crumpets all day that he isnt aloud to give to his brother.
well, i can see what you are saying, but i don't see how, as they are joined still, and as pwnage said, share the same vitals, but only share the legs. wait, that doesn't add up...
Didn't they do that in the movie Stuck on You?
Quote from: NotSoCheerios on April 01, 2010, 10:35:39 PM
Quote from: DivineLegend on April 01, 2010, 12:43:04 AM
Quote from: Meiun on April 01, 2010, 12:40:13 AM
I say put the bad twin behind bars, and let the good one sit on the outside of the bars with TV out of view of his criminal brother, a nice bed, and a butler that brings him tea and crumpets all day that he isnt aloud to give to his brother.
well, i can see what you are saying, but i don't see how, as they are joined still, and as pwnage said, share the same vitals, but only share the legs. wait, that doesn't add up...
Didn't they do that in the movie Stuck on You?
Probably because HeriocHero mentioned that movie as well a couple posts up. I haven't even heard of it till now.
And guys they share all the veins below the waist because that's where I said they were joined...But that also includes liver, intestines etc so yeah if you fed one poison it would affect the other. Though I'm not sure what killing the 2 twins together has to do with this because at least I'd hope there would be a more reasonable verdict than that?
Nope.. they are an abomination.. KILL THEM!
but seriously.. I figure they would say.. in order to be safe.. they both go into a mental institution. One must suffer for the safety of the community.
Put the evil twin in a strait jacket and place them in a wheel chair and only give the controls to the good twin.
Quote from: ARTgames on April 02, 2010, 12:36:52 PM
Put the evil twin in a strait jacket and place them in a wheel chair and only give the controls to the good twin.
YES. And lets also put a muzzle over twin 2 so he can't speak/spit. Maybe even a blindfold and earplugs and nose-plugs which are all permanently fused to him.
To be honest i have no idea what your talking about. I cant tell if your being sarcastic and if you are not I'm not sure what flaw your point at. What did i miss?
Quote from: ARTgames on April 02, 2010, 05:19:32 PM
To be honest i have no idea what your talking about. I cant tell if your being sarcastic and if you are not I'm not sure what flaw your point at. What did i miss?
I was not being sarcastic. I am in full favor of using restraints and bondage devices on twin 2 so that twin 1 can proceed about his day freely.
Im sorry then. I was not sure.
Quote from: Mr Pwnage on April 02, 2010, 07:11:21 PM
I was not being sarcastic. I am in full favor of using restraints and bondage devices on twin 2 so that twin 1 can proceed about his day freely.
I would disagree, using bondage devices would encourage a master and slave relationship between the twins. In other words, the Judge would be sending Twin 2 into slavery. No Judge would order that punishment.
This is one of those cases where the death penalty comes in handy... You can do surgery to seperate them, and the innocent ones gets the vital organs, and the murdering one doesn't.
Quote from: Red October on April 02, 2010, 09:04:56 PM
Quote from: Mr Pwnage on April 02, 2010, 07:11:21 PM
I was not being sarcastic. I am in full favor of using restraints and bondage devices on twin 2 so that twin 1 can proceed about his day freely.
I would disagree, using bondage devices would encourage a master and slave relationship between the twins. In other words, the Judge would be sending Twin 2 into slavery. No Judge would order that punishment.
Well i don't think twin 1 can make twin 2 do forced labour being tied up and all. This is not any more slavery then going to jail.
Now if twin 2 could still use his hands and twin 1 had a shock collar that made twin 2 do what every twin 1 wanted then yea. But that's not what i was suggestion.
Quote from: Specialboy on April 02, 2010, 09:13:21 PM
This is one of those cases where the death penalty comes in handy... You can do surgery to seperate them, and the innocent ones gets the vital organs, and the murdering one doesn't.
I think it has been mentioned that this is a hypothetical. And I believe in this hypothetical, there is no possibility of surgical separation. There are definitely plenty of complicated cases of conjoined twins that cannot be separated safely without putting both twins in danger. I think if there is even if the chance is low, a judge would not be able to make that decision. There's too much chance for a wrongful death suit. Better to have the innocent twin sit in jail with some form of compensation than to inadvertently kill him.
What is the verdict for a similar murder committed by someone with split personality disorder?
I thought it would be somewhat similar.
Quote from: Jackabomb on April 04, 2010, 12:37:23 AM
What is the verdict for a similar murder committed by someone with split personality disorder?
I thought it would be somewhat similar.
Well you'd probably send them to an insane asylum or something in that case. Though it really wouldn't be the same thing because the main issue here is that they are both sane people and we are trying to find a fair and just punishment for twin 2 with at the same time being reasonable to twin 1. Which is of course a rather hard verdict to reach...in any case though it wouldn't really be related?
Quote from: Specialboy on April 02, 2010, 09:13:21 PM
This is one of those cases where the death penalty comes in handy... You can do surgery to seperate them, and the innocent ones gets the vital organs, and the murdering one doesn't.
That would be my verdict, and probably closest to the justice for both twins. But it'd be interesting to see what a real judge would say.
Also... Recently there were two Siamese twins conjoined at the hip, and sharing 1 kidney. A kidney donor was found, and they were separated, each with one leg... Hooray!
Question though... With just two legs... Wouldn't there be anatomical issues...? I'm serious.
~Aqua
Quote from: Aqua on April 04, 2010, 10:01:26 PM
Quote from: Specialboy on April 02, 2010, 09:13:21 PM
This is one of those cases where the death penalty comes in handy... You can do surgery to seperate them, and the innocent ones gets the vital organs, and the murdering one doesn't.
That would be my verdict, and probably closest to the justice for both twins. But it'd be interesting to see what a real judge would say.
Also... Recently there were two Siamese twins conjoined at the hip, and sharing 1 kidney. A kidney donor was found, and they were separated, each with one leg... Hooray!
Question though... With just two legs... Wouldn't there be anatomical issues...? I'm serious.
~Aqua
Heads get's manhood, Tails gets nothing?
Kill them both...