As an avid Apple hater, I thought this appropriate.
http://www.cracked.com/article_18377_5-reasons-you-should-be-scared-apple.html (http://www.cracked.com/article_18377_5-reasons-you-should-be-scared-apple.html)
I know they did a good job of hyper-link'ing a lot of references, and I know that my negligence in not reading said sources may cost me for saying this, but there are a lot of tall claims in that article. None the less I found it entertaining, and even if the claims are false, it does make one wonder!
Let me first say that I'm not necessarily a fan or advocate of Apple, but at the same time I don't particularly "hate" Apple either.
I have to say, this seems like a lot of complaining and exaggeration. For one thing, no cell phone or gadget distributor wants you jailbreaking their device. Hell, even console companies take measures to stop that from happening. So because Apple was successful at coming up with a solution to that problem they are now the "bad guys"? Sure, you pay for something you should be able to do what you want with it... so if you don't like what Apple has done, don't buy their product. It's that simple.
Apple may have taken some drastic measures to contain privacy leaks and keep information about their new products secure, but can you blame them? I don't think it's fair to say Apple indirectly caused someone to commit suicide. Yes, they have strict policies with their vendors, but they didn't tell that company to torture their employee. That's just ridiculous.
As far as App development, again, this is a matter of consumers continuing to buy into their product even though they may not like certain things. Apple's App market is their service. It is not the free market. If they decide they don't want an App on it for any reason, it should be their decision. If you don't like it, don't buy the service, or don't develop apps for it. But people do anyways, and that's how they get away with it. If people were to stop buying into the Apple products due to these tactics, Apple would essentially be forced into making their App market more open. That's how consumerism works.
And finally, the #1 reason being that they attach Safari onto an iTunes update... seriously? How many other softwares do this? How many times do people miss unchecking the box that opts out of installing Yahoo or Google toolbar or some other obnoxious "helpful" piece of software? This is by far the weakest argument of the bunch.
Quote from: Lingus on May 13, 2010, 04:56:37 PM
Let me first say that I'm not necessarily a fan or advocate of Apple, but at the same time I don't particularly "hate" Apple either.
I have to say, this seems like a lot of complaining and exaggeration. For one thing, no cell phone or gadget distributor wants you jailbreaking their device. Hell, even console companies take measures to stop that from happening. So because Apple was successful at coming up with a solution to that problem they are now the "bad guys"? Sure, you pay for something you should be able to do what you want with it... so if you don't like what Apple has done, don't buy their product. It's that simple.
Apple may have taken some drastic measures to contain privacy leaks and keep information about their new products secure, but can you blame them? I don't think it's fair to say Apple indirectly caused someone to commit suicide. Yes, they have strict policies with their vendors, but they didn't tell that company to torture their employee. That's just ridiculous.
As far as App development, again, this is a matter of consumers continuing to buy into their product even though they may not like certain things. Apple's App market is their service. It is not the free market. If they decide they don't want an App on it for any reason, it should be their decision. If you don't like it, don't buy the service, or don't develop apps for it. But people do anyways, and that's how they get away with it. If people were to stop buying into the Apple products due to these tactics, Apple would essentially be forced into making their App market more open. That's how consumerism works.
And finally, the #1 reason being that they attach Safari onto an iTunes update... seriously? How many other softwares do this? How many times do people miss unchecking the box that opts out of installing Yahoo or Google toolbar or some other obnoxious "helpful" piece of software? This is by far the weakest argument of the bunch.
That actually summed up a lot of what I wanted to say, I was just not ambitious enough to say it... Thief...
Quote from: Lingus on May 13, 2010, 04:56:37 PM
Let me first say that I'm not necessarily a fan or advocate of Apple, but at the same time I don't particularly "hate" Apple either.
I have to say, this seems like a lot of complaining and exaggeration. For one thing, no cell phone or gadget distributor wants you jailbreaking their device. Hell, even console companies take measures to stop that from happening. So because Apple was successful at coming up with a solution to that problem they are now the "bad guys"? Sure, you pay for something you should be able to do what you want with it... so if you don't like what Apple has done, don't buy their product. It's that simple.
Not really true. There are things like google phones that are hackable. Just google Linux Phones. And its not like this argument has not been made for anything other than apple before. I think this place is a gray area so im not taking sides here if they should or should not.
Quote
Apple may have taken some drastic measures to contain privacy leaks and keep information about their new products secure, but can you blame them? I don't think it's fair to say Apple indirectly caused someone to commit suicide. Yes, they have strict policies with their vendors, but they didn't tell that company to torture their employee. That's just ridiculous.
Well its hard to say. We really don't know how people are treated over seas in these fabies/sweat shops. Just Google/Youtube "Made in china". But from what i have seen in documentaries about Wall-mart is its not good there. But as i said not just apple is doing this. But its bad no matter who is doing it.
As for Apple in this case i have no idea if they guy had mentil problems or what happen for sure. But if it happens once more than i will be more suspicious.
QuoteAs far as App development, again, this is a matter of consumers continuing to buy into their product even though they may not like certain things. Apple's App market is their service. It is not the free market. If they decide they don't want an App on it for any reason, it should be their decision. If you don't like it, don't buy the service, or don't develop apps for it. But people do anyways, and that's how they get away with it. If people were to stop buying into the Apple products due to these tactics, Apple would essentially be forced into making their App market more open. That's how consumerism works.
I don't think that should stop people from speaking there minds about the matter. Its true that its there right and they can do this but its does not mean other people can say if they like it or not. Just because McDonald's makes there hamburgers too salty does not mean i cant say if i like it or not because they have a right to make them as salty as they want. They also don't have to listen to me.
So my advice is just stop paying attention to the complaints if you don't care about them.
QuoteAnd finally, the #1 reason being that they attach Safari onto an iTunes update... seriously? How many other softwares do this? How many times do people miss unchecking the box that opts out of installing Yahoo or Google toolbar or some other obnoxious "helpful" piece of software? This is by far the weakest argument of the bunch.
Just because other people do it does not make it right. The worst part about this is that the put it in an update to Itunes. They gave me a piece of software i did not want in an update to something i did. I also hate it when yahoo and Microsoft do it. I wish they would all just stop it. That's why i don't use yahoo software. I wish i could stop using Itunes but i don't know any podcast downloader that work on windows 7.
I would also like to point out that Apple is like any other big company and will have lots of conservancy around it. Anything popular can come under this kind of scrutiny. And i take these topics like noise. Also people express there like for Apple with words like "best, love, greater than, ect". And when people use those words it tends to bring more hate than needed also. Extremes attract each other like a magnetic. Or in other words the whole situation is exaggerated.
BTW: I dont owen any Apple stuff like there phones or Ipods or comps. I have use other peoples before.
But they missed the most inportant one. I think they have seen Steve jobs with Miles Bennett Dyson to work on this "skynet". This cant be good. :P
Quote from: ARTgames on May 13, 2010, 06:17:49 PM
Quote from: Lingus on May 13, 2010, 04:56:37 PM
Let me first say that I'm not necessarily a fan or advocate of Apple, but at the same time I don't particularly "hate" Apple either.
I have to say, this seems like a lot of complaining and exaggeration. For one thing, no cell phone or gadget distributor wants you jailbreaking their device. Hell, even console companies take measures to stop that from happening. So because Apple was successful at coming up with a solution to that problem they are now the "bad guys"? Sure, you pay for something you should be able to do what you want with it... so if you don't like what Apple has done, don't buy their product. It's that simple.
Not really true. There are things like google phones that are hackable. Just google Linux Phones. And its not like this argument has not been made for anything other than apple before. I think this place is a gray area so im not taking sides here if they should or should not.
You're right. I probably should have said "almost" none in this case. I should clarify though by pointing out while you may be able to hack some phones, it doesn't mean the company wants you doing it. But yes, you are correct that some products are specifically more open to allow you to modify.
Quote from: ARTgames on May 13, 2010, 06:17:49 PM
Quote
Apple may have taken some drastic measures to contain privacy leaks and keep information about their new products secure, but can you blame them? I don't think it's fair to say Apple indirectly caused someone to commit suicide. Yes, they have strict policies with their vendors, but they didn't tell that company to torture their employee. That's just ridiculous.
Well its hard to say. We really don't know how people are treated over seas in these fabies/sweat shops. Just Google/Youtube "Made in china". But from what i have seen in documentaries about Wall-mart is its not good there. But as i said not just apple is doing this. But its bad no matter who is doing it.
As for Apple in this case i have no idea if they guy had mentil problems or what happen for sure. But if it happens once more than i will be more suspicious.
Art, what you missed here is that the company who did this was NOT Apple. It was a vendor that Apple uses. I highly doubt that a company as highly visible as Apple would clear something as horrible as torture. I think it's a cop out to put any blame on Apple for this. They are looking out for their profits by putting restrictions on their vendors. If a vendor leaks something, they may not use that vendor anymore. That makes sense to me... But, it's this company
Foxconn who decided to torture their employee for potentially losing them a contract with Apple.
Quote from: ARTgames on May 13, 2010, 06:17:49 PM
QuoteAs far as App development, again, this is a matter of consumers continuing to buy into their product even though they may not like certain things. Apple's App market is their service. It is not the free market. If they decide they don't want an App on it for any reason, it should be their decision. If you don't like it, don't buy the service, or don't develop apps for it. But people do anyways, and that's how they get away with it. If people were to stop buying into the Apple products due to these tactics, Apple would essentially be forced into making their App market more open. That's how consumerism works.
I don't think that should stop people from speaking there minds about the matter. Its true that its there right and they can do this but its does not mean other people can say if they like it or not. Just because McDonald's makes there hamburgers too salty does not mean i cant say if i like it or not because they have a right to make them as salty as they want. They also don't have to listen to me.
So my advice is just stop paying attention to the complaints if you don't care about them.
I agree with you here, but it goes both ways. I can speak my mind as well. I'm not sure if you've noticed, but I have a problem with people with extreme opinions. I'm kind of an anti-extremist I guess. I'm extremely against extreme positions... if that makes sense.
Anyways, I'm not saying you can't dislike Apple, but to hate them so much as to start compiling lists and exaggerating what seem like minor things... I just don't get it.
Quote from: ARTgames on May 13, 2010, 06:17:49 PM
QuoteAnd finally, the #1 reason being that they attach Safari onto an iTunes update... seriously? How many other softwares do this? How many times do people miss unchecking the box that opts out of installing Yahoo or Google toolbar or some other obnoxious "helpful" piece of software? This is by far the weakest argument of the bunch.
Just because other people do it does not make it right. The worst part about this is that the put it in an update to Itunes. They gave me a piece of software i did not want in an update to something i did. I also hate it when yahoo and Microsoft do it. I wish they would all just stop it. That's why i don't use yahoo software. I wish i could stop using Itunes but i don't know any podcast downloader that work on windows 7.
I would also like to point out that Apple is like any other big company and will have lots of conservancy around it. Anything popular can come under this kind of scrutiny. And i take these topics like noise. Also people express there like for Apple with words like "best, love, greater than, ect". And when people use those words it tends to bring more hate than needed also. Extremes attract each other like a magnetic. Or in other words the whole situation is exaggerated.
BTW: I dont owen any Apple stuff like there phones or Ipods or comps. I have use other peoples before.
But they missed the most inportant one. I think they have seen Steve jobs with Miles Bennett Dyson to work on this "skynet". This cant be good. :P
I think you're right. I definitely think opinions like this article expresses is a kind of backlash against popularity. Apple makes some great products and people flock to have them. It's only natural that some people are going to have an adverse reaction to that. I just wish this wasn't necessary.
@Lingus I agree. As for what happens in china i did miss the part about that it was a vendor.
A good alternative to this (if it is true):
Get an Android.
Get a Zune.
Get a PC.
Easy.
Well a good pc is a mac book pro. Unless you mean a non apple pc.
Quote from: ARTgames on May 13, 2010, 09:48:36 PM
Well a good pc is a mac book pro. Unless you mean a non apple pc.
Non Apple PC. If what they say about the whole "slipping unwanted programs stealthily into program updates" is true, then it sure as hell better be a non Apple.
Quote from: Snakeman on May 13, 2010, 09:58:40 PM
Quote from: ARTgames on May 13, 2010, 09:48:36 PM
Well a good pc is a mac book pro. Unless you mean a non apple pc.
Non Apple PC. If what they say about the whole "slipping unwanted programs stealthily into program updates" is true, then it sure as hell better be a non Apple.
They don't. They make it clear as day when you update their software that you will also be downloading Safari and Quicktime (unless you uncheck the boxes). They don't hide it.
Quote from: Scotty on May 13, 2010, 10:30:44 PM
Quote from: Snakeman on May 13, 2010, 09:58:40 PM
Quote from: ARTgames on May 13, 2010, 09:48:36 PM
Well a good pc is a mac book pro. Unless you mean a non apple pc.
Non Apple PC. If what they say about the whole "slipping unwanted programs stealthily into program updates" is true, then it sure as hell better be a non Apple.
They don't. They make it clear as day when you update their software that you will also be downloading Safari and Quicktime (unless you uncheck the boxes). They don't hide it.
No no, in that situation, it was installed WITHOUT the option of opting out. Hence the uproar.
Also, when installing Itunes you HAVE to install Quicktime first. You do not need quicktime to use itunes, and yet I must have it on my computer. Damn bogus!
Really wish there was a good alternative to Itunes.
What about Rhapsody?
I havent tried it but I guess its like iTunes.
btw, I guess I am part of the machine (iPhone user) I love my iPhone =3
But agree that apple has a pretty big monoploy in the mp3 industry and up there with cell phones as well.
As far as I'm aware you don't need iTunes if you don't have an Apple product. You bought the product, you get the software they make you get. You don't like it, return the product. I fail to see what is so difficult about this. This is how businesses are run.
When I purchased my Ipod touch, it was the only product on the market that was reasonably priced that could do the things that it does.
Quote from: Seifer on May 13, 2010, 11:43:05 PM
When I purchased my Ipod touch, it was the only product on the market that was reasonably priced that could do the things that it does.
Then you just willingly accepted having to use their software that you despise so much. Hell, you paid to use their software essentially. How is that their fault?
Sometimes you've got to settle. I take what I can get, and if I want to complain because I had no better choice, than your damn right I will!
That's the thing, you bought into their products knowing full well what you were getting yourself into. It's called compromise. You get a good product, but have to deal with the shitty side, namely the software. So here's a question for you. Now more than ever, hating them as much as you apparently do, will you get another iPod or any other Apple product if there aren't any others on the market that do what you want them to do? If you intend to, your arguments of how their stuff sucks dies with your next purchase, if it wasn't dead already.
That's like me saying I want a car that's super fast, but I know the handling sucks. So I buy the car, and then accuse the company of sucking to no end because their handling sucks... Why'd I buy the car? Because it goes fast? There's plenty of other cars that will cause less compromise that I could've purchased, and been more happy with. Sure, they may not be AS fast, but the handling is better.
An even better analogy would be someone like Jake or Chris bitching about Ubisoft's DRM and how they hate them to no end for it, but go and buy Assassin's Creed II anyways, full well knowing that they are purchasing a product that they hate, but want it anyways because it's the only game that does what it does, and does it as well as it does. Does that make any sense?
Except I've never bought any apps ever for my Ipod. I've jailbroken it so far that I can get the legit Itunes Apps for free, any of them, not just those crappy homemade apps on Cydia. So I really don't support them. I bought their product because I can play movies, music, games, access the internet, use a calender, a calculator, etc etc etc. I don't buy songs via Itunes or anything of that nature.
The same goes for the DRM and AC2. I purposefully Pirated the game as opposed to buying it simply because of the DRM. Yes, I have an Ipod Touch, but I've never given Apple a cent past the purchase.
ah, and thats why not one computer of mine has EVER had apple software touch it.
Quote from: Seifer on May 13, 2010, 10:45:46 PM
Quote from: Scotty on May 13, 2010, 10:30:44 PM
Quote from: Snakeman on May 13, 2010, 09:58:40 PM
Quote from: ARTgames on May 13, 2010, 09:48:36 PM
Well a good pc is a mac book pro. Unless you mean a non apple pc.
Non Apple PC. If what they say about the whole "slipping unwanted programs stealthily into program updates" is true, then it sure as hell better be a non Apple.
They don't. They make it clear as day when you update their software that you will also be downloading Safari and Quicktime (unless you uncheck the boxes). They don't hide it.
No no, in that situation, it was installed WITHOUT the option of opting out. Hence the uproar.
Also, when installing Itunes you HAVE to install Quicktime first. You do not need quicktime to use itunes, and yet I must have it on my computer. Damn bogus!
Really wish there was a good alternative to Itunes.
Zune? Don't use a ipod?
Quote from: Scotty on May 14, 2010, 12:05:07 AM
That's the thing, you bought into their products knowing full well what you were getting yourself into. It's called compromise. You get a good product, but have to deal with the shitty side, namely the software. So here's a question for you. Now more than ever, hating them as much as you apparently do, will you get another iPod or any other Apple product if there aren't any others on the market that do what you want them to do? If you intend to, your arguments of how their stuff sucks dies with your next purchase, if it wasn't dead already.
That's like me saying I want a car that's super fast, but I know the handling sucks. So I buy the car, and then accuse the company of sucking to no end because their handling sucks... Why'd I buy the car? Because it goes fast? There's plenty of other cars that will cause less compromise that I could've purchased, and been more happy with. Sure, they may not be AS fast, but the handling is better.
Well look at it this way. He looked at the good and the bad of the ipod and figured the good was a bit better. That does not mean the part that's bad goes away. He wants less of it. And i see no problem in asking for that.
Even when people buy stuff they like they may make a commnet like "i wish it was a bit smaller" or "i wish it was a tad faster". What he doing the is same thing just more exaggerated because his like to dislike ratio is lower. Hell i play stick online and wish things all the time. With your logic Scotty there would be no Ideas & Suggestions on this site because according to you i should move on past this game because of the parts i dislike, even if the good out wages it.
Don't get caught on the words "hate, sucks" and find out what he does not like.
Quote from: ARTgames on May 14, 2010, 08:22:17 AM
Quote from: Scotty on May 14, 2010, 12:05:07 AM
That's the thing, you bought into their products knowing full well what you were getting yourself into. It's called compromise. You get a good product, but have to deal with the shitty side, namely the software. So here's a question for you. Now more than ever, hating them as much as you apparently do, will you get another iPod or any other Apple product if there aren't any others on the market that do what you want them to do? If you intend to, your arguments of how their stuff sucks dies with your next purchase, if it wasn't dead already.
That's like me saying I want a car that's super fast, but I know the handling sucks. So I buy the car, and then accuse the company of sucking to no end because their handling sucks... Why'd I buy the car? Because it goes fast? There's plenty of other cars that will cause less compromise that I could've purchased, and been more happy with. Sure, they may not be AS fast, but the handling is better.
Well look at it this way. He looked at the good and the bad of the ipod and figured the good was a bit better. That does not mean the part that's bad goes away. He wants less of it. And i see no problem in asking for that.
Even when people buy stuff they like they may make a commnet like "i wish it was a bit smaller" or "i wish it was a tad faster". What he doing the is same thing just more exaggerated because his like to dislike ratio is lower. Hell i play stick online and wish things all the time. With your logic Scotty there would be no Ideas & Suggestions on this site because according to you i should move on past this game because of the parts i dislike, even if the good out wages it.
Don't get caught on the words "hate, sucks" and find out what he does not like.
My logic never insinuated that one shouldn't suggest ways to improve a situation, I would never in any situation tell someone that they can't voice their opinion on how to improve something when there's a problem (quite the opposite, I encourage that). What my logic
is getting at, is that one would avidly hate a company, yet purchase their products, and continue to bitch that they paid into a broken system, knowing full well what they were buying into before they made the purchase. I've yet to see in this conversation people discussing suggestions for how things should be done, it's all be an avid hatred being portrayed towards Apple. Granted, suggesting improvements on this forum won't go anywhere past the community's averaged ~1.75 second attention span anyways, but all I'm getting out of this argument is "I knew Apple sucked, I bought thereir stuff anyways, and now that I willingly payed into a company I hate, I hate them more." It seems unjustified.
To counter your broken analogy of Stick Online Art, I wouldn't ever tell anyone "don't suggest your ideas on how to improve the game because you think it sucks hairy hamster scrotum." As a measure of what I would tell someone, imagine someone posting this exact same topic, only twisting it to say "5 reasons you should be scared of Stick Online", and then said "Since everyone here knows I'm an avid Stick Online opposer, I thought this appropriate:" then posted a link to an article that over-exaggerates the lack of content or whatever in the game. What do you think any of us would tell the person? I would say something to the mild effects of "pack your bags".
Well its finale then. Seifier has a love hate relationship with Apple. It explains the topic and buying habits.
Quote from: Seifer on May 13, 2010, 11:43:05 PM
When I purchased my Ipod touch, it was the only product on the market that was reasonably priced that could do the things that it does.
See, that's where I would differ. There is a similar situation right now with the iPad. There is nothing on the market that does what it does. I would love to have one, but there are certain things about it that I would not want. So I will wait until the market is more saturated with similar devices before making a decision. I then would have multiple choices from multiple companies and probably pay significantly less.
Quote from: Scotty on May 14, 2010, 12:05:07 AM
An even better analogy would be someone like Jake or Chris bitching about Ubisoft's DRM and how they hate them to no end for it, but go and buy Assassin's Creed II anyways, full well knowing that they are purchasing a product that they hate, but want it anyways because it's the only game that does what it does, and does it as well as it does. Does that make any sense?
This is why I feel like I have more of a right to speak on these kinds of things. I don't like the DRM, so I'm not buying the game. Nor am I pirating it. I'm making a stand against things that I do not like. If everyone were to do that, then the companies who make these things would be forced to comply or lose profits. Instead, people see something they want and they immediately go out and get it regardless of the downsides. It's this kind of consumerist mentality that allows these companies to continue doing what they're doing.
To get more on topic i would like to ask do any of you think Apple is doing things you do not like?
Quote from: ARTgames on May 14, 2010, 06:29:19 PM
To get more on topic i would like to ask do any of you think Apple is doing things you do not like?
Yes. Yes. Oh, and yes.
One word: Proprietary.
Btw, thought I should mention, I am currently looking at an Apple Software Update window on my computer (my fiance has an iPod). By default iTunes+QuickTime is selected, and in a separate section for "New Software" is Safari 4 which was deselected. This means you don't even have to opt out of Safari like you do with a lot of internet toolbars. If I had not paid attention to the screen at all and just hit "Install" I would not have gotten Safari... So maybe they snuck Safari in previously but it was probably a matter of an opt out vs. opt in and people just didn't take the time to realize. In any case, Apple clearly has paid attention to complaints since they no longer require an opt out. Does that sound like a company who is "Against Everyone".
Quote from: Kbob32 on May 13, 2010, 11:16:00 PM
What about Rhapsody?
I havent tried it but I guess its like iTunes.
btw, I guess I am part of the machine (iPhone user) I love my iPhone =3
But agree that apple has a pretty big monoploy in the mp3 industry and up there with cell phones as well.
I was going to read the whole topic before posting, but this stopped me.
Rhapsody is a no no.
Really.
I had to use it for a cruddy Sansa mp3 player a while back (now have a Zune), and it was quite painful to work with. After a while I just stopped using it. Fortunately, at the time, I had my dad giving me my bank whatchamacallits (not anymore now). I saw that I had a payment to Rhapsody, though I never bought anything. I had to fill out my credit card information to use it and my 'free one month trial.' Somehow I got subscribed, without my knowing. I was very angry, as I did not have a job, and subscriptions are not options.
When the dust cleared, I got my money back, but I have lost ALL respect for Rhapsody.
And I hate Apple.
~Aqua