Piracy the end of media industry?

[Lingus]

Wait... I'm confused. Was your last sentence sarcastic?

In any case, that could be explained by how easy the item in question is to pirate.

Oh, I get what you're saying. You're saying it's not an incentive to keep their prices low since people pirate cheaper things more often. Got it. That wasn't what I was saying... but I guess both of us were disagreeing with Torch's statement in different ways.

[Seifer]

Why would they pirate cheaper things over expensive things? I can't find the logic...

[Lingus]

Like I said, it's easier to do. Think about how easy it is to download hundreds of music files versus how much more difficult it is to download a video game or software along with the crack and make sure the file as well as the crack works correctly. Small things like music and apps are a lot easier to download large quantities of very quickly, and if any of them don't work, you can quickly download more. Those smaller items are cheaper.

[Jake]

Wait... I'm confused. Was your last sentence sarcastic?

In any case, that could be explained by how easy the item in question is to pirate.

Oh, I get what you're saying. You're saying it's not an incentive to keep their prices low since people pirate cheaper things more often. Got it. That wasn't what I was saying... but I guess both of us were disagreeing with Torch's statement in different ways.

Sorry if it sounded sarcastic. I was agreeing with you that it would definitely make sense for them to heighten the price (despite the fact that we reached that conclusion by different means), considering people, for whatever reason, pirate cheaper stuff more often.

[Lingus]

Well no. That's not what I was saying. My point was more that companies will use piracy in order to justify higher prices. But I believe that when they do that, they make it more likely for someone to pirate the product because it is too expensive. What I believe about your point, that people tend to pirate cheaper products more often, is that it is due to the fact that they are easier to pirate.

I have heard that when something is inexpensive, the perceived value is lower, and therefore people will justify pirating it. In other words, "If it's a 99 cent song, it's next to free, so pirating music isn't so bad." So there is probably some truth in that as well. But, there's a difference between that, and say lowering a video game from $60 (too expensive imo) to $30 (more reasonable imo). The more reasonable price makes it such that the perceived value is still significant enough to make people think twice about pirating, but inexpensive enough to be able to afford.

I guess what I'm saying is all of these statements we are throwing around probably depend on many different factors.

[LeGuy]

I've never agreed with that. I know most people will probably not accept my analogy, but I always say it's like walking into a store, making a duplicate copy of the product, and walking out with the duplicate. With digital piracy, there is no loss of product to the company selling the product. Whereas stealing something from a retail story, they're actually losing that product. So in the end, if I were to digitally "steal" something, if I never intended to purchase the product in the first place, the company has lost absolutely nothing. They have no lost merchandise, and no lost potential sale.

I used the CD store as an example. The reason a CD costs 10 bucks or more isn't because the disc is made out of a particularly expensive material or the CD case is made out luxury plastic. The packing and physical disc itself costs maybe around a dollar - but I've done no research, so don't hold that estimate to me. Even in the event that someone purchases music from a CD store and not an online resource, the music in question is limitless, as it can be copied endlessly without any charge. The CD is merely the rather cheap medium by which the music is distributed. Whether pirating or buying a digital product legitimately, through means of download or CD purchase, there is no danger of the product running out.

However, you do raise a good point nonetheless. It's definitely not the same as stealing something like an iPod, because it would cost more to create and distribute 100 iPods than 10, whereas with a music file it costs exactly the same to distribute 100,000 copies of the same song instead of 1.

I think of this as more or less of a golden rule sort of thing. If I'm going to put the effort into creating a game or album for the purpose of entertainment of others, and I decide that I want to charge people for it, then I would definitely prefer it if they would pay rather than pirate. In a realistic or practical sense this view is absurd, but morally I think if everyone held the same respect for others that they did for themselves we would be living in a lot better world.

Of course, I'm turning this into some giant ethics issue when it honestly isn't that big of a deal. Do it if you want to, I suppose, but this is just a small decision I've made about the way I want to live my life.

[Jake]

Well no. That's not what I was saying. My point was more that companies will use piracy in order to justify higher prices. But I believe that when they do that, they make it more likely for someone to pirate the product because it is too expensive. What I believe about your point, that people tend to pirate cheaper products more often, is that it is due to the fact that they are easier to pirate.

I have heard that when something is inexpensive, the perceived value is lower, and therefore people will justify pirating it. In other words, "If it's a 99 cent song, it's next to free, so pirating music isn't so bad." So there is probably some truth in that as well. But, there's a difference between that, and say lowering a video game from $60 (too expensive imo) to $30 (more reasonable imo). The more reasonable price makes it such that the perceived value is still significant enough to make people think twice about pirating, but inexpensive enough to be able to afford.

I guess what I'm saying is all of these statements we are throwing around probably depend on many different factors.

I gotcha now. It's really hard to say how consumers would react to something like dropping the price of a game without a detailed analysis of sales and piracy rates, because of, like you said, all the factors involved.

[Chaos]

In a realistic or practical sense this view is absurd, but morally I think if everyone held the same respect for others that they did for themselves we would be living in a lot better world.

Morally, I think if we eliminated money and did things for the joy of doing them and helping others because they need it, we would be living in a lot better world.

[Jake]

In a realistic or practical sense this view is absurd, but morally I think if everyone held the same respect for others that they did for themselves we would be living in a lot better world.

Morally, I think if we eliminated money and did things for the joy of doing them and helping others because they need it, we would be living in a lot better world.

Yeah, agreed, sadly I don't envision a future where that happens.

[Seifer]

I've never agreed with that. I know most people will probably not accept my analogy, but I always say it's like walking into a store, making a duplicate copy of the product, and walking out with the duplicate. With digital piracy, there is no loss of product to the company selling the product. Whereas stealing something from a retail story, they're actually losing that product. So in the end, if I were to digitally "steal" something, if I never intended to purchase the product in the first place, the company has lost absolutely nothing. They have no lost merchandise, and no lost potential sale.

I used the CD store as an example. The reason a CD costs 10 bucks or more isn't because the disc is made out of a particularly expensive material or the CD case is made out luxury plastic. The packing and physical disc itself costs maybe around a dollar - but I've done no research, so don't hold that estimate to me. Even in the event that someone purchases music from a CD store and not an online resource, the music in question is limitless, as it can be copied endlessly without any charge. The CD is merely the rather cheap medium by which the music is distributed. Whether pirating or buying a digital product legitimately, through means of download or CD purchase, there is no danger of the product running out.

However, you do raise a good point nonetheless. It's definitely not the same as stealing something like an iPod, because it would cost more to create and distribute 100 iPods than 10, whereas with a music file it costs exactly the same to distribute 100,000 copies of the same song instead of 1.

I think of this as more or less of a golden rule sort of thing. If I'm going to put the effort into creating a game or album for the purpose of entertainment of others, and I decide that I want to charge people for it, then I would definitely prefer it if they would pay rather than pirate. In a realistic or practical sense this view is absurd, but morally I think if everyone held the same respect for others that they did for themselves we would be living in a lot better world.

Of course, I'm turning this into some giant ethics issue when it honestly isn't that big of a deal. Do it if you want to, I suppose, but this is just a small decision I've made about the way I want to live my life.

Bands don't even make much off a CD either. The store takes a cut, the distributor, the producer etc etc etc. In the end, I bet the band gets maybe 10% of what a CD is sold for, if that.

[LeGuy]

In a realistic or practical sense this view is absurd, but morally I think if everyone held the same respect for others that they did for themselves we would be living in a lot better world.

Morally, I think if we eliminated money and did things for the joy of doing them and helping others because they need it, we would be living in a lot better world.

A care for the rights of others (in this case, to receive compensation that they technically deserve) is what, I think we'd all say, spawns general human decency, benevolence, and charity in the first place. Our two views are hardly conflicting, though frankly I'm not sure if that was the intention or not.

[Torch]

In a realistic or practical sense this view is absurd, but morally I think if everyone held the same respect for others that they did for themselves we would be living in a lot better world.

Morally, I think if we eliminated money and did things for the joy of doing them and helping others because they need it, we would be living in a lot better world.

Most people need a selfish incentive to do anything. That idealism is impractical.

[ARTgames]

Whether you think downloading stuff is fair or not under the us law you can still get int trouble for it, Keep that in mind.

[Lingus]

I've never agreed with that. I know most people will probably not accept my analogy, but I always say it's like walking into a store, making a duplicate copy of the product, and walking out with the duplicate. With digital piracy, there is no loss of product to the company selling the product. Whereas stealing something from a retail story, they're actually losing that product. So in the end, if I were to digitally "steal" something, if I never intended to purchase the product in the first place, the company has lost absolutely nothing. They have no lost merchandise, and no lost potential sale.

I used the CD store as an example. The reason a CD costs 10 bucks or more isn't because the disc is made out of a particularly expensive material or the CD case is made out luxury plastic. The packing and physical disc itself costs maybe around a dollar - but I've done no research, so don't hold that estimate to me. Even in the event that someone purchases music from a CD store and not an online resource, the music in question is limitless, as it can be copied endlessly without any charge. The CD is merely the rather cheap medium by which the music is distributed. Whether pirating or buying a digital product legitimately, through means of download or CD purchase, there is no danger of the product running out.

However, you do raise a good point nonetheless. It's definitely not the same as stealing something like an iPod, because it would cost more to create and distribute 100 iPods than 10, whereas with a music file it costs exactly the same to distribute 100,000 copies of the same song instead of 1.

Actually, what you aren't considering in your first paragraph is distribution costs. Yes, the printing and packaging of the CD is minimal (there's also the printed material inserts, but again, minimal... it's much the same with video games except there's a bit more packaging, but you still pay a significant amount more for those...) What costs the most money I believe is shipping those CDs to distribution centers and retail stores. But either way, you dealt with the real issue in your second paragraph. The point I was making was that the item you steal from the store cost money to produce and is gone when it is stolen, whereas digital distribution costs nothing to produce. So the only thing the company loses from having digital copies stolen is lost potential revenue.

I think of this as more or less of a golden rule sort of thing. If I'm going to put the effort into creating a game or album for the purpose of entertainment of others, and I decide that I want to charge people for it, then I would definitely prefer it if they would pay rather than pirate. In a realistic or practical sense this view is absurd, but morally I think if everyone held the same respect for others that they did for themselves we would be living in a lot better world.

Of course, I'm turning this into some giant ethics issue when it honestly isn't that big of a deal. Do it if you want to, I suppose, but this is just a small decision I've made about the way I want to live my life.

I agree here... but the golden rule should work for everyone. I'm sure these companies wouldn't like to be price gouged from their vendors. What if the CD printing companies all decided to start charging $10 per CD to print? I'm sure they would raise hell.

I gotcha now. It's really hard to say how consumers would react to something like dropping the price of a game without a detailed analysis of sales and piracy rates, because of, like you said, all the factors involved.

Yea, I totally agree with you. I'm just making assumptions. The people setting the prices probably know what they're doing... but who knows?

In a realistic or practical sense this view is absurd, but morally I think if everyone held the same respect for others that they did for themselves we would be living in a lot better world.

Morally, I think if we eliminated money and did things for the joy of doing them and helping others because they need it, we would be living in a lot better world.

I like that you qualified this with "Morally". To be honest, in a practical sense, we'd probably be living in a much much worse world. Who would honestly choose to do some of the crap jobs there are in the world just because they enjoy it? The "helping others because they need it" part of your statement is all well and good, but in all practicality, there's some jobs that are utter shit to have to do, and the only reason people do them now is because they either can't get a different job, or because they get paid enough to do it. If everyone had the option to just do what they want and they were able to have the things they need such as shelter and food and clothing and entertainment, there'd be no trash pickup, no sewage workers, etc etc.

Unless people just did those things through a sense of duty to the society as a whole. I guess there'd have to be some kind of deal where everyone would do a crap job every so often and then get to switch out and do something they enjoy the rest of the time.

[ARTgames]

Your befit of doing a crap job it to have less crap around you. Like when you clean your house.