Discuss piracy or digital media in general. What are your policies?
Do you think it is wrong? Do you do it anyways? If you enjoy something that you pirated will you buy it eventually? Is it or is it not a loss of profit for the company, even if you wouldn't have bought the product anyways?
Don't share torrents or shit like that in this thread, it is for discussion.
I do not think pirating is wrong. I always do it. I pirated a couple of games that I never bought. I do not feel bad about it. I did eventually buy Minecraft though. And as for money goes with pirating, I feel like the companies with games like Call of Duty have too much money to handle anyways. I don't think it's hurting them.
I myself have never pirated anything. But I do have a few friends that do. I don't necessarily condemn it or praise it, it doesn't have any effect on me so why should I care? In regards to money being lost, if they were losing so many profits,(talking big video game companies, or movies/music artist) then I would doubt they would keep coming out with new titles, albums, movies, every year or so. That's just my 2 cents on it.
Pirating is terrible. I think its bad to just jump onto other people's ships and to take all there stuff and or to hold them hostage. As for digital media its a nice compared to analog media. Its easier to move around and to and it can be changed and updated fast. The only problem is having a consent connection of the internet and or power. But its getting easier every day.
I pirate.. Everything. Music, PSP games, PC games, PS3 games etc. I hack my consoles just for this purpose. Living up here in Canada without those strict American rules is beautiful. Mind you, I pirate because I dislike buying something and it not being worth it. If I like something that I've pirated, I buy it the next day. If not, it's usually deleted in the first hour.
I'm against pirating. It's nothing more than stealing on the internet, and it's illegal.
The only thing I really pirate is music and media software. Not exactly guilt-free about the music, but the media software are what I consider as free game, because they have a possibility to start career choices for young generations, but are ridiculously expensive.
Quote from: ARTgames on October 30, 2011, 01:35:45 PM
Pirating is terrible. I think its bad to just jump onto other people's ships and to take all there stuff and or to hold them hostage. As for digital media its a nice compared to analog media. Its easier to move around and to and it can be changed and updated fast. The only problem is having a consent connection of the internet and or power. But its getting easier every day.
You should go into stand-up comedy.
Quote from: 11clock on October 30, 2011, 03:12:04 PM
I'm against pirating. It's nothing more than stealing on the internet, and it's illegal.
You've bought every single song on your computer?
I don't really feel guilty about pirating at all. My Dad was the one who taught me to pirate in the first place.
If I have the money, I'll buy it. If I don't, I'll download it.
That's about it.
I come from a very poor family, and I'm poor myself. I will almost never buy music, games, shows or movies. But I'm not going to let my financial situation get in the way of my happiness. Especially when it comes to Juggernaut companies that produce big games like COD as someone mentioned. Those companies are making exhorbint amounts either way, and I certainly can't afford it.
But let's be real here, most bands make a pathetic profit off of album sales in any case. The real point of selling an Album is to create hype, so that they get signed on for longer, sell out at shows, get good press, radio, so on and so forth. So me pirating music doesn't make much of a difference in either case, and the bands I am an avid fan of I do usually see live when they come around. So no big loss.
I'm always willing to support smaller companies trying to break though. I bought Minecraft, I bough Magicka. These were small company games, and they actually needed the money(well Notch made it rich, but usually they do), and the games are usually around 10 bucks, not 70-80 like most companies wish to gouge.
Quote from: Yankyal on October 30, 2011, 06:00:28 PM
Quote from: 11clock on October 30, 2011, 03:12:04 PM
I'm against pirating. It's nothing more than stealing on the internet, and it's illegal.
You've bought every single song on your computer?
The only songs on my computer are free songs I use for my games; I'm not a music fan. Everything I own is either free or I had to pay for it. I've never pirated, and I never will.
I really don't play that many games lately, although I'll admit I have pirated some games just to try them out (basically making my own demo... I don't want to spend $50 on a game I'll only have a few hours of free time to play.)
As for music, I buy pretty much all of it, just because I like having Physical CD's for all the goodies that come with them, and because a lot of songs are still written to be part of an album (not that you can't download full albums, just saying I'm not one of those people who has 5,000 songs by 5,000 artists). But it really ticks me off when CD's come in cases that look like they were made from used cereal boxes in order to be "environmentally friendly" - a cheap case with nothing but the album itself isn't really any more useful than downloads.
That, and it's fun to show off that I have a big CD collection, because I'm full of myself like that.
Quote from: Hikarikuen on October 30, 2011, 07:59:19 PM
I really don't play that many games lately, although I'll admit I have pirated some games just to try them out (basically making my own demo... I don't want to spend $50 on a game I'll only have a few hours of free time to play.)
$50 is absolutely ridiculous. Especially for things like CoD which is just a rehash of the previous game. Not to mention you have to pay for new maps and DLCs, just racking up the price.
The only games I've bought are tf2, portal 2, and half-life 2. Because they are exceedingly good, and none of them were over $20. The rest can get !@#$ed with their $50 prices.
I pirate music, because half the CDs I buy I only listen to half the songs or less. If I like the CD/band I will go out and buy it after I've listened to it.
Movies I don't usually download but watch online. And if they're a good movie then my mom usually ends up buying them anyways.
I'm not a big computer gamer but the one game I really wanted was the new Alice game(Return to Madness). Bought that legally, and of course it's made by EA so there were glitches left and right. I don't mind buying games, but as far as EA goes, if they ever come out with anymore games I'd like, I will definitely download and not waste more money on that company.
Whenever I go to pirate something I ask myself, 'If pirating wasn't an option, would I spend money on this?' If the answer is no, then I will pirate it, if I would have actually bought it otherwise, then I will buy it. For example, I just pre-ordered a copy of Skyrim because I think it's worth the money, but I'm not about to go and spend $50 on a game like Dead Rising 2 in which I will only get a couple of hours of fun from. I have the same rule with music and movies, I legitimately own all the Pirates of the Caribbean movies because they are amazing, however I pirated the Transformer's movies because they really aren't that great.
Following this principle basically means that no company is losing money because of me, because if I didn't pirate it, I wouldn't have paid for it anyway. And it doesn't mean if I pirate it then they lose a physical copy of something they'd be able to sell, unlike if I walk into a store and steam a CD. I'm also in the situation where I can't actually afford to buy lots of games, movies and music. My family is by no means wealthy and I'm lucky enough to own a computer and have a decent internet connection.
The only exception to this rule is Indie games, I am a huge supporter of Indie game developers and always buy their games if they look fun.
I consider pirating to be a lesser form of stealing. I feel bad about doing it, but I still haven't wrapped my mind around the idea that it's the same as taking something off store shelves. Digital content strives to be free. If I could teleport a fridge to my house without subsequently removing any other fridge from existence, I'd probably do that, and feel slightly bad about it in the process.
Quote from: Jake on October 31, 2011, 12:17:58 AM
I consider pirating to be a lesser form of stealing. I feel bad about doing it, but I still haven't wrapped my mind around the idea that it's the same as taking something off store shelves.
That's because it isn't the same. It isn't stealing, it's copyright infringement. And frankly, with how bent and corrupted copyright laws have become from their original form and intent, I have a hard time taking them seriously nowadays.
I usually download ps1 games that I used to own as a kid. Apparently you're allowed to do that if you own the games. I don't have the games anymore, but meh. Close enough.
Quote from: Chaos on October 31, 2011, 12:37:41 AM
Quote from: Jake on October 31, 2011, 12:17:58 AM
I consider pirating to be a lesser form of stealing. I feel bad about doing it, but I still haven't wrapped my mind around the idea that it's the same as taking something off store shelves.
That's because it isn't the same. It isn't stealing, it's copyright infringement. And frankly, with how bent and corrupted copyright laws have become from their original form and intent, I have a hard time taking them seriously nowadays.
Actually, it is stealing as well. Getting something for free that you should of payed for is defined as stealing.
And in response to Jake, it isn't a lesser form of stealing, it's just the same thing as stealing but on the internet. You're getting away with a product that you should of payed for.
I have never pirated, so I am not sure how it all works, but that's the impression I get. If I have the wrong impression, please let me know.
Quote from: 11clock on October 31, 2011, 10:28:17 AM
Quote from: Chaos on October 31, 2011, 12:37:41 AM
Quote from: Jake on October 31, 2011, 12:17:58 AM
I consider pirating to be a lesser form of stealing. I feel bad about doing it, but I still haven't wrapped my mind around the idea that it's the same as taking something off store shelves.
That's because it isn't the same. It isn't stealing, it's copyright infringement. And frankly, with how bent and corrupted copyright laws have become from their original form and intent, I have a hard time taking them seriously nowadays.
Actually, it is stealing as well. Getting something for free that you should of payed for is defined as stealing.
And in response to Jake, it isn't a lesser form of stealing, it's just the same thing as stealing but on the internet. You're getting away with a product that you should of payed for.
I have never pirated, so I am not sure how it all works, but that's the impression I get. If I have the wrong impression, please let me know.
I was always taught that stealing was bad because it deprives someone of the original object. If it doesn't deprive them of the original object, then I don't see the logic in calling it stealing. I'm not saying it isn't still bad to do, because it definitely can be depending on the situation, but labeling it as stealing gives people the wrong idea. If I walk over to your house, duplicate your microwave, and walk out of the house, you're not going to call the cops saying I stole your microwave. Why? Because after they realize the microwave is still there, they'll call you an idiot.
Either way, I still view piracy as a generally negative thing, but I also see it as an inevitable thing. Data wants to be free.
Quote from: 11clock on October 31, 2011, 10:28:17 AM
Quote from: Chaos on October 31, 2011, 12:37:41 AM
Quote from: Jake on October 31, 2011, 12:17:58 AM
I consider pirating to be a lesser form of stealing. I feel bad about doing it, but I still haven't wrapped my mind around the idea that it's the same as taking something off store shelves.
That's because it isn't the same. It isn't stealing, it's copyright infringement. And frankly, with how bent and corrupted copyright laws have become from their original form and intent, I have a hard time taking them seriously nowadays.
Actually, it is stealing as well. Getting something for free that you should of payed for is defined as stealing.
And in response to Jake, it isn't a lesser form of stealing, it's just the same thing as stealing but on the internet. You're getting away with a product that you should of payed for.
I have never pirated, so I am not sure how it all works, but that's the impression I get. If I have the wrong impression, please let me know.
Googling the definition of stealing revealed this definition:
QuoteVerb: Take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it: "thieves stole her bicycle".
Your argument addresses one of the implied parts of this definition. Pirating take's another's property without permission or legal right, but it doesn't satisfy the last implication in that there is no need to return it since it was copied in the act, thus no material was technically lost. Not going either way with this, just that people often overlook the definition of stealing to simply mean "taking", nothing more, which is not necessarily correct.
Googling the definition of stealing revealed this definition:
QuoteVerb: Take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it: "thieves stole her bicycle".
A more accurate definition of Pirating would be :
"Pirates duplicated her bicycle and made millions for others so the bicycle shop ran out of buisness."
I personally don't have Windows installed on my new computer for the sole reason I did not want to pay for it. I do admit that when I download NES/SNES roms I keep them for more than 24 hours even if I don't own the original cartridge.
Also if no 'demo' version of a game exists I may download it first but if I play it more than a day before deleting it I buy it. (i.e. steam games)
Edit : I just got promoted to Sr. Member :)
Thanks for clarification. I'm still against pirating, however, as it still robs the developers of their money, unless you buy their product eventually. I do believe in a few exceptions of piracy, though. Playing ROMs of games that are no longer in the market I'm completely fine with, since there is no other method to get the game other than to buy it from someone else. For example, the SNES and NES games.
EDIT: Actually, to be honest, I've played ROMs before and I still have some on my computer, though they are only SNES ROMs. I stay away from ROMs of modern games, though.
Quote from: 11clock on October 31, 2011, 11:51:31 AM
Thanks for clarification. I'm still against pirating, however, as it still robs the developers of their money, unless you buy their product eventually.
That's a noble opinion that no one can argue.
Quote from: Yankyal on October 30, 2011, 08:28:22 PM
Quote from: Hikarikuen on October 30, 2011, 07:59:19 PM
I really don't play that many games lately, although I'll admit I have pirated some games just to try them out (basically making my own demo... I don't want to spend $50 on a game I'll only have a few hours of free time to play.)
$50 is absolutely ridiculous. Especially for things like CoD which is just a rehash of the previous game. Not to mention you have to pay for new maps and DLCs, just racking up the price.
The only games I've bought are tf2, portal 2, and half-life 2. Because they are exceedingly good, and none of them were over $20. The rest can get !@#$ed with their $50 prices.
Yeah, I buy all my Valve games and I buy quite a few other games on Steam sales because then I at least feel I'm getting my money's worth, although I have to admit that still makes me feel like kind of a brat who feels entitled to the games.
Also, the above posts reminded me that I forgot to mention emulation; a few years ago I would have said downloading old roms was perfectly acceptable because there was no way to buy the games and support the company that made them. However, now we have things like Xbox Live Arcade and Nintendo's Virtual Console, so I find emulation slightly harder to justify for the relevant systems. Do things like that affect anyone else's opinions?
Oh, and one more question, about a slightly different scenario: with the Homebrew Channel on my Wii I'm able to patch some files and I can download any song in Guitar Hero and Rock Band. I'm not even gonna attempt to condone this, but I'm curious as to what you guys think of it.
Quote from: 11clock on October 31, 2011, 11:51:31 AM
Thanks for clarification. I'm still against pirating, however, as it still robs the developers of their money, unless you buy their product eventually.
And that's where the debate comes in, because, you see, it DOESN'T rob them of money, it robs them of theoretical PROFIT. They aren't LOSING any money as a product of pirating, they just aren't MAKING money. That's where the line gets really shady, cause now you're robbing them of theoretical money that may or may not have ever existed.
Here's the thing. They don't want you to have the ability to play the game without you paying for it first basically. Yes you could just go to a friends house or borrow it from some one but they really cant do anything about that. (but i'm sure they would like to if they could.) So regardless if you really wanted the game or if you where ever going to buy the game to start with they still wanted money before you ever got the ability to to play it. Now that's just a rule set by people. The truth is it's information and it can be copied easily with are computers.
The only thing we are really getting tied up on is there rule that was made up. Its basically making money off keeping secrets. And they try to keep those secrets by lawsuits and DRM. Its the power in the rule. And what is the right/wrong way to get that secret is just up to society to decide.
As of right now the law says you can not do that. But laws are not really laws (What I mean by that is they can be broken) but just opinions defining behavior that got threw are legislative system at the time it was passed. And some times we change are minds on this stuff. As we see here many of you say it seems that you have a different opinion on that matter of this.
So what do you think? Do you think it should be ok for you to get the game and play it before paying them? Does it matter who is the user and who is the maker when you do this? I want you honest opinions but I just wanted to add please think about it for both parity. For the people who make it and people who use it.
My stance on pirating is very similar to Jakes. I've actually used pretty much exactly the same argument (the one about copying and stealing the fridge from the store) with a friend of mine who is against pirating.
Although that is my stance, I no longer pirate. The reasons being that, for one, it's too time and effort consuming to be worth it for me, and secondly because I don't have very much time to play video games anymore. I also used to pirate music, but things like Pandora made it not at all worth it.
Oh, and of course, Steam and Steam sales have made it much more affordable to buy games. I have lists of games that I may eventually want to play, and when they go on sale through Steam I purchase them. I might spend around $50-100 per year and buy around 5 games. And I have games I purchased 2 or more years ago that I still haven't gotten around to. So i'm spending more like $10-20 per game on average. Of course, I can't play the games when they're brand new, but again, I don't have the time anyways so that's not important to me.
I think what is very important about that is that I used to be someone who pirated games because I simply could not afford to spend the kind of money necessary to buy what I wanted. Maybe I could buy 1 or 2 games per year, but even then, why would I do that when I could pirate it. The effort and time spent pirating was worth it for every game because the games were so expensive. So, all it took to convert someone like me away from pirating is to lower the prices. I think Valve is brilliant for this. They found a way to lower the prices without actually lowering the prices. Their Steam sales probably bring in tons and tons of cash for them and the companies that make the games. If they can continue along that path I think it will help reduce the incidence of pirating.
I pirate whatever I want, but I haven't been doing it as much lately. My internet is far to slow to download games. A 10GB video game would take around 14-16 hours here.
Quote from: Chaos on October 31, 2011, 03:57:01 PM
Quote from: 11clock on October 31, 2011, 11:51:31 AM
Thanks for clarification. I'm still against pirating, however, as it still robs the developers of their money, unless you buy their product eventually.
And that's where the debate comes in, because, you see, it DOESN'T rob them of money, it robs them of theoretical PROFIT. They aren't LOSING any money as a product of stealing, they just aren't MAKING money. That's where the line gets really shady, cause now you're robbing them of theoretical money that may or may not have ever existed.
This^^
A lot of people wouldn't have bought the game anyway, if piracy wasn't an option they would have simply not played the game at all. At least this way the game is getting played. And people that wouldn't have played the game otherwise may see how great it is after pirating it that they decide to go ahead and buy the sequel.
Wait a sec... This topic hasn't devolved into an argument over the definition of stealing? Holy shiznat! Now that's a first.
so lets define stealing.... :P Yeah I agree that when it goes that way it turns into just a battle of semantics of the word.
Quote from: Chaos on October 31, 2011, 03:57:01 PM
Quote from: 11clock on October 31, 2011, 11:51:31 AM
Thanks for clarification. I'm still against pirating, however, as it still robs the developers of their money, unless you buy their product eventually.
And that's where the debate comes in, because, you see, it DOESN'T rob them of money, it robs them of theoretical PROFIT. They aren't LOSING any money as a product of pirating, they just aren't MAKING money. That's where the line gets really shady, cause now you're robbing them of theoretical money that may or may not have ever existed.
Well I meant that they weren't making money, but they would of got money if the product was purchased. I agree that if it wasn't for piracy, they wouldn't of bought the product anyways, but I still feel that piracy is morally wrong. I'd hate it if people pirated a product I made, that's for sure, especially due to the fact that I'm starting to move towards making money from the gaming market with my higher quality games being worked on. I left Game Maker along with my WiP games that were being made with it to move on to more powerful game development SDKs, and I'm getting into actual coding, starting with Objective C.
Quote from: 11clock on November 01, 2011, 12:42:25 PM
Quote from: Chaos on October 31, 2011, 03:57:01 PM
Quote from: 11clock on October 31, 2011, 11:51:31 AM
Thanks for clarification. I'm still against pirating, however, as it still robs the developers of their money, unless you buy their product eventually.
And that's where the debate comes in, because, you see, it DOESN'T rob them of money, it robs them of theoretical PROFIT. They aren't LOSING any money as a product of pirating, they just aren't MAKING money. That's where the line gets really shady, cause now you're robbing them of theoretical money that may or may not have ever existed.
Well I meant that they weren't making money, but they would of got money if the product was purchased. I agree that if it wasn't for piracy, they wouldn't of bought the product anyways, but I still feel that piracy is morally wrong. I'd hate it if people pirated a product I made, that's for sure, especially due to the fact that I'm starting to move towards making money from the gaming market with my higher quality games being worked on. I left Game Maker along with my WiP games that were being made with it to move on to more powerful game development SDKs, and I'm getting into actual coding, starting with Objective C.
Piracy when it comes to games is two-fold. One, for indie developers, it helps get exposure. Sure, it sucks that people are exploiting your hard work, but it gets people's attention. You have to work around it and know how to give it the best chance at succeeding. Like Lingus said, steam has really innovated the gaming market in a way that is not only profitable, but deters piracy. They address the two biggest concerns that players might use as motivation to pirate a game, low cost through deals, and ease of acquisition through one-click download and install.
If Steam isn't a possibility for whatever reason, you have to approach it as Notch did with Minecraft. Don't be ignorant to the fact that it will get pirated, that's a known fact. People will pirate your game(s), its best you just accept the reality rather than try to fight it. People can pirate Minecraft, but there's a good chance now-a-days (not as much as a year ago when it was still in alpha and people wanted to do anything to get their feet wet with the game) that they are pretty much going to be limited to single player if the pirate it. No respectable Minecraft server is going to allow for people to play with a pirated copy, because they would have to disable the Minecraft authentication, and then people can log in with any username (to include admin accounts) and reek whatever havoc they dream with no real way to prevent it. On top of that, Notch allows paid subscribers to modify their skins through their website, and maybe a few other nice perks that are otherwise unavailable or a pain in the ass to do with a pirated version.
So instead of freaking out over whether or not people will pirate your game (I promise it will be the former), accept it, make it cheap, easily available, and add in perks that are otherwise unavailable unless people purchase it.
That is how you deter piracy. It's not that hard. You won't beat it, but you'll get more money that way.
Oh, and a textbook definition of "fighting piracy" is DRM. If you do any form of DRM, you are evil. Don't screw over your customers, you'll lose more purchase with DRM than without it.
Quote from: Scotty on November 01, 2011, 01:24:04 PM
Quote from: 11clock on November 01, 2011, 12:42:25 PM
Quote from: Chaos on October 31, 2011, 03:57:01 PM
Quote from: 11clock on October 31, 2011, 11:51:31 AM
Thanks for clarification. I'm still against pirating, however, as it still robs the developers of their money, unless you buy their product eventually.
And that's where the debate comes in, because, you see, it DOESN'T rob them of money, it robs them of theoretical PROFIT. They aren't LOSING any money as a product of pirating, they just aren't MAKING money. That's where the line gets really shady, cause now you're robbing them of theoretical money that may or may not have ever existed.
Well I meant that they weren't making money, but they would of got money if the product was purchased. I agree that if it wasn't for piracy, they wouldn't of bought the product anyways, but I still feel that piracy is morally wrong. I'd hate it if people pirated a product I made, that's for sure, especially due to the fact that I'm starting to move towards making money from the gaming market with my higher quality games being worked on. I left Game Maker along with my WiP games that were being made with it to move on to more powerful game development SDKs, and I'm getting into actual coding, starting with Objective C.
Piracy when it comes to games is two-fold. One, for indie developers, it helps get exposure. Sure, it sucks that people are exploiting your hard work, but it gets people's attention. You have to work around it and know how to give it the best chance at succeeding. Like Lingus said, steam has really innovated the gaming market in a way that is not only profitable, but deters piracy. They address the two biggest concerns that players might use as motivation to pirate a game, low cost through deals, and ease of acquisition through one-click download and install.
If Steam isn't a possibility for whatever reason, you have to approach it as Notch did with Minecraft. Don't be ignorant to the fact that it will get pirated, that's a known fact. People will pirate your game(s), its best you just accept the reality rather than try to fight it. People can pirate Minecraft, but there's a good chance now-a-days (not as much as a year ago when it was still in alpha and people wanted to do anything to get their feet wet with the game) that they are pretty much going to be limited to single player if the pirate it. No respectable Minecraft server is going to allow for people to play with a pirated copy, because they would have to disable the Minecraft authentication, and then people can log in with any username (to include admin accounts) and reek whatever havoc they dream with no real way to prevent it. On top of that, Notch allows paid subscribers to modify their skins through their website, and maybe a few other nice perks that are otherwise unavailable or a pain in the ass to do with a pirated version.
So instead of freaking out over whether or not people will pirate your game (I promise it will be the former), accept it, make it cheap, easily available, and add in perks that are otherwise unavailable unless people purchase it. That is how you deter piracy. It's not that hard. You won't beat it, but you'll get more money that way.
Oh, and a textbook definition of "fighting piracy" is DRM. If you do any form of DRM, you are evil. Don't screw over your customers, you'll lose more purchase with DRM than without it.
Thanks for the info, Scotty. I was thinking of using DRM, but I guess I'll not do that and accept piracy.
Quote from: 11clock on November 01, 2011, 02:03:27 PM
Quote from: Scotty on November 01, 2011, 01:24:04 PM
Quote from: 11clock on November 01, 2011, 12:42:25 PM
Quote from: Chaos on October 31, 2011, 03:57:01 PM
Quote from: 11clock on October 31, 2011, 11:51:31 AM
Thanks for clarification. I'm still against pirating, however, as it still robs the developers of their money, unless you buy their product eventually.
And that's where the debate comes in, because, you see, it DOESN'T rob them of money, it robs them of theoretical PROFIT. They aren't LOSING any money as a product of pirating, they just aren't MAKING money. That's where the line gets really shady, cause now you're robbing them of theoretical money that may or may not have ever existed.
Well I meant that they weren't making money, but they would of got money if the product was purchased. I agree that if it wasn't for piracy, they wouldn't of bought the product anyways, but I still feel that piracy is morally wrong. I'd hate it if people pirated a product I made, that's for sure, especially due to the fact that I'm starting to move towards making money from the gaming market with my higher quality games being worked on. I left Game Maker along with my WiP games that were being made with it to move on to more powerful game development SDKs, and I'm getting into actual coding, starting with Objective C.
Piracy when it comes to games is two-fold. One, for indie developers, it helps get exposure. Sure, it sucks that people are exploiting your hard work, but it gets people's attention. You have to work around it and know how to give it the best chance at succeeding. Like Lingus said, steam has really innovated the gaming market in a way that is not only profitable, but deters piracy. They address the two biggest concerns that players might use as motivation to pirate a game, low cost through deals, and ease of acquisition through one-click download and install.
If Steam isn't a possibility for whatever reason, you have to approach it as Notch did with Minecraft. Don't be ignorant to the fact that it will get pirated, that's a known fact. People will pirate your game(s), its best you just accept the reality rather than try to fight it. People can pirate Minecraft, but there's a good chance now-a-days (not as much as a year ago when it was still in alpha and people wanted to do anything to get their feet wet with the game) that they are pretty much going to be limited to single player if the pirate it. No respectable Minecraft server is going to allow for people to play with a pirated copy, because they would have to disable the Minecraft authentication, and then people can log in with any username (to include admin accounts) and reek whatever havoc they dream with no real way to prevent it. On top of that, Notch allows paid subscribers to modify their skins through their website, and maybe a few other nice perks that are otherwise unavailable or a pain in the ass to do with a pirated version.
So instead of freaking out over whether or not people will pirate your game (I promise it will be the former), accept it, make it cheap, easily available, and add in perks that are otherwise unavailable unless people purchase it. That is how you deter piracy. It's not that hard. You won't beat it, but you'll get more money that way.
Oh, and a textbook definition of "fighting piracy" is DRM. If you do any form of DRM, you are evil. Don't screw over your customers, you'll lose more purchase with DRM than without it.
Thanks for the info, Scotty. I was thinking of using DRM, but I guess I'll not do that and accept piracy.
I don't mean to put your motivation in the gutter, but we have to be realistic, piracy is going to happen.
If you put DRM on it, people see that as a challenge, and they'll break it JUST to say they could, then as punishment they'll torrent it to Hell and back to rub it in your face.
I'm not making that up, look at all the games Bioware has released with DRM, I dare to think that more pirated copies are in existence than purchased copies. Heck, even the different crackers out there got in a flame war over which one cracked it first the proper way, youtube videos and all. I think that game was uh... Someone help me out here... It wasn't Dragonage 2... Maybe Splinter Cell?
Regardless, you have to concentrate on deterring it through positive re-enforcement rather than negative. People will leach on your negative reaction to piracy and piss on your DRM after they rip it out just because they want to make a point (or 3). Give users a reason to want to buy your games. Encourage them to buy it, and even throw out a humorous poke or two at the pirates every now and again. I remember Notch replying to some question someone once had, maybe on Yahoo questions (Chaos would know better, he told me about it) about "Where so and so could pirate Minecraft". He actually responded saying something along the lines of "You can probably find it on the pirate bay, but I'd much rather you purchase my game." That kind of zing is exactly what gets people to like you, and more likely to want to support your work rather than rip you off.
Quote from: Scotty on November 01, 2011, 03:24:15 PM
Quote from: 11clock on November 01, 2011, 02:03:27 PM
Quote from: Scotty on November 01, 2011, 01:24:04 PM
Quote from: 11clock on November 01, 2011, 12:42:25 PM
Quote from: Chaos on October 31, 2011, 03:57:01 PM
Quote from: 11clock on October 31, 2011, 11:51:31 AM
Thanks for clarification. I'm still against pirating, however, as it still robs the developers of their money, unless you buy their product eventually.
And that's where the debate comes in, because, you see, it DOESN'T rob them of money, it robs them of theoretical PROFIT. They aren't LOSING any money as a product of pirating, they just aren't MAKING money. That's where the line gets really shady, cause now you're robbing them of theoretical money that may or may not have ever existed.
Well I meant that they weren't making money, but they would of got money if the product was purchased. I agree that if it wasn't for piracy, they wouldn't of bought the product anyways, but I still feel that piracy is morally wrong. I'd hate it if people pirated a product I made, that's for sure, especially due to the fact that I'm starting to move towards making money from the gaming market with my higher quality games being worked on. I left Game Maker along with my WiP games that were being made with it to move on to more powerful game development SDKs, and I'm getting into actual coding, starting with Objective C.
Piracy when it comes to games is two-fold. One, for indie developers, it helps get exposure. Sure, it sucks that people are exploiting your hard work, but it gets people's attention. You have to work around it and know how to give it the best chance at succeeding. Like Lingus said, steam has really innovated the gaming market in a way that is not only profitable, but deters piracy. They address the two biggest concerns that players might use as motivation to pirate a game, low cost through deals, and ease of acquisition through one-click download and install.
If Steam isn't a possibility for whatever reason, you have to approach it as Notch did with Minecraft. Don't be ignorant to the fact that it will get pirated, that's a known fact. People will pirate your game(s), its best you just accept the reality rather than try to fight it. People can pirate Minecraft, but there's a good chance now-a-days (not as much as a year ago when it was still in alpha and people wanted to do anything to get their feet wet with the game) that they are pretty much going to be limited to single player if the pirate it. No respectable Minecraft server is going to allow for people to play with a pirated copy, because they would have to disable the Minecraft authentication, and then people can log in with any username (to include admin accounts) and reek whatever havoc they dream with no real way to prevent it. On top of that, Notch allows paid subscribers to modify their skins through their website, and maybe a few other nice perks that are otherwise unavailable or a pain in the ass to do with a pirated version.
So instead of freaking out over whether or not people will pirate your game (I promise it will be the former), accept it, make it cheap, easily available, and add in perks that are otherwise unavailable unless people purchase it. That is how you deter piracy. It's not that hard. You won't beat it, but you'll get more money that way.
Oh, and a textbook definition of "fighting piracy" is DRM. If you do any form of DRM, you are evil. Don't screw over your customers, you'll lose more purchase with DRM than without it.
Thanks for the info, Scotty. I was thinking of using DRM, but I guess I'll not do that and accept piracy.
I don't mean to put your motivation in the gutter, but we have to be realistic, piracy is going to happen.
If you put DRM on it, people see that as a challenge, and they'll break it JUST to say they could, then as punishment they'll torrent it to Hell and back to rub it in your face.
I'm not making that up, look at all the games Bioware has released with DRM, I dare to think that more pirated copies are in existence than purchased copies. Heck, even the different crackers out there got in a flame war over which one cracked it first the proper way, youtube videos and all. I think that game was uh... Someone help me out here... It wasn't Dragonage 2... Maybe Splinter Cell?
Regardless, you have to concentrate on deterring it through positive re-enforcement rather than negative. People will leach on your negative reaction to piracy and piss on your DRM after they rip it out just because they want to make a point (or 3). Give users a reason to want to buy your games. Encourage them to buy it, and even throw out a humorous poke or two at the pirates every now and again. I remember Notch replying to some question someone once had, maybe on Yahoo questions (Chaos would know better, he told me about it) about "Where so and so could pirate Minecraft". He actually responded saying something along the lines of "You can probably find it on the pirate bay, but I'd much rather you purchase my game." That kind of zing is exactly what gets people to like you, and more likely to want to support your work rather than rip you off.
Did you read my comment? I said I won't use DRM. Thanks for the heads up, though.
That new game, Voxatron, already has people pirating it. I don't think you can completely stop it, even if the game cost as low as a penny.
Quote from: Scotty on November 01, 2011, 01:24:04 PM
Piracy when it comes to games is two-fold. One, for indie developers, it helps get exposure. Sure, it sucks that people are exploiting your hard work, but it gets people's attention. You have to work around it and know how to give it the best chance at succeeding. Like Lingus said, steam has really innovated the gaming market in a way that is not only profitable, but deters piracy. They address the two biggest concerns that players might use as motivation to pirate a game, low cost through deals, and ease of acquisition through one-click download and install.
If Steam isn't a possibility for whatever reason, you have to approach it as Notch did with Minecraft. Don't be ignorant to the fact that it will get pirated, that's a known fact. People will pirate your game(s), its best you just accept the reality rather than try to fight it. People can pirate Minecraft, but there's a good chance now-a-days (not as much as a year ago when it was still in alpha and people wanted to do anything to get their feet wet with the game) that they are pretty much going to be limited to single player if the pirate it. No respectable Minecraft server is going to allow for people to play with a pirated copy, because they would have to disable the Minecraft authentication, and then people can log in with any username (to include admin accounts) and reek whatever havoc they dream with no real way to prevent it. On top of that, Notch allows paid subscribers to modify their skins through their website, and maybe a few other nice perks that are otherwise unavailable or a pain in the ass to do with a pirated version.
So instead of freaking out over whether or not people will pirate your game (I promise it will be the former), accept it, make it cheap, easily available, and add in perks that are otherwise unavailable unless people purchase it. That is how you deter piracy. It's not that hard. You won't beat it, but you'll get more money that way.
Oh, and a textbook definition of "fighting piracy" is DRM. If you do any form of DRM, you are evil. Don't screw over your customers, you'll lose more purchase with DRM than without it.
I've known people who have had to pirate games more than once because the copies they bought wouldn't let them due play to DRM. DRM does nothing, it will always be cracked and all it does is cause companies to lose respect.
(http://i.imgur.com/OCReC.gif)
Quote from: Yankyal on November 01, 2011, 06:09:47 PM
I've known people who have had to pirate games more than once because the copies they bought wouldn't let them due play to DRM. DRM does nothing, it will always be cracked and all it does is cause companies to lose respect.
Yep. Just bought GTA IV: Episodes from Liberty City, and the DRM has caused the game to be unplayable for me. Thanks for alienating the customer Rockstar! Guess I'll just pirate their game next time.
Quote from: Jake on November 01, 2011, 07:08:28 PM
Quote from: Yankyal on November 01, 2011, 06:09:47 PM
I've known people who have had to pirate games more than once because the copies they bought wouldn't let them due play to DRM. DRM does nothing, it will always be cracked and all it does is cause companies to lose respect.
Yep. Just bought GTA IV: Episodes from Liberty City, and the DRM has caused the game to be unplayable for me. Thanks for alienating the customer Rockstar! Guess I'll just pirate their game next time.
Wait, what happened? Antipiracy? I don't understand..
Quote from: Freeforall on November 01, 2011, 07:20:44 PM
Quote from: Jake on November 01, 2011, 07:08:28 PM
Quote from: Yankyal on November 01, 2011, 06:09:47 PM
I've known people who have had to pirate games more than once because the copies they bought wouldn't let them due play to DRM. DRM does nothing, it will always be cracked and all it does is cause companies to lose respect.
Yep. Just bought GTA IV: Episodes from Liberty City, and the DRM has caused the game to be unplayable for me. Thanks for alienating the customer Rockstar! Guess I'll just pirate their game next time.
Wait, what happened? Antipiracy? I don't understand..
Rockstar instituted an anti-piracy measure called DRM into their games. the DRM won't let me activate the game, despite the fact that I have a legit copy. If I pirated the game, I wouldn't have to deal with the DRM.
Quote from: Jake on November 01, 2011, 07:30:44 PM
Quote from: Freeforall on November 01, 2011, 07:20:44 PM
Quote from: Jake on November 01, 2011, 07:08:28 PM
Quote from: Yankyal on November 01, 2011, 06:09:47 PM
I've known people who have had to pirate games more than once because the copies they bought wouldn't let them due play to DRM. DRM does nothing, it will always be cracked and all it does is cause companies to lose respect.
Yep. Just bought GTA IV: Episodes from Liberty City, and the DRM has caused the game to be unplayable for me. Thanks for alienating the customer Rockstar! Guess I'll just pirate their game next time.
Wait, what happened? Antipiracy? I don't understand..
Rockstar instituted an anti-piracy measure called DRM into their games. the DRM won't let me activate the game, despite the fact that I have a legit copy. If I pirated the game, I wouldn't have to deal with the DRM.
Ah, I see. :/ Sorry bout that.
Quote from: Jake on November 01, 2011, 07:30:44 PM
Quote from: Freeforall on November 01, 2011, 07:20:44 PM
Quote from: Jake on November 01, 2011, 07:08:28 PM
Quote from: Yankyal on November 01, 2011, 06:09:47 PM
I've known people who have had to pirate games more than once because the copies they bought wouldn't let them due play to DRM. DRM does nothing, it will always be cracked and all it does is cause companies to lose respect.
Yep. Just bought GTA IV: Episodes from Liberty City, and the DRM has caused the game to be unplayable for me. Thanks for alienating the customer Rockstar! Guess I'll just pirate their game next time.
Wait, what happened? Antipiracy? I don't understand..
Rockstar instituted an anti-piracy measure called DRM into their games. the DRM won't let me activate the game, despite the fact that I have a legit copy. If I pirated the game, I wouldn't have to deal with the DRM.
The worst of them is Ubisoft, seriously, it'd be easier to crack the game yourself than it would be to get their game to work with the ridiculous DRM they use. DRM won't stop piracy, it will encourage it.