Pirating.

[Matty_Richo]

Whenever I go to pirate something I ask myself, 'If pirating wasn't an option, would I spend money on this?' If the answer is no, then I will pirate it, if I would have actually bought it otherwise, then I will buy it. For example, I just pre-ordered a copy of Skyrim because I think it's worth the money, but I'm not about to go and spend $50 on a game like Dead Rising 2 in which I will only get a couple of hours of fun from. I have the same rule with music and movies, I legitimately own all the Pirates of the Caribbean movies because they are amazing, however I pirated the Transformer's movies because they really aren't that great.

Following this principle basically means that no company is losing money because of me, because if I didn't pirate it, I wouldn't have paid for it anyway. And it doesn't mean if I pirate it then they lose a physical copy of something they'd be able to sell, unlike if I walk into a store and steam a CD. I'm also in the situation where I can't actually afford to buy lots of games, movies and music. My family is by no means wealthy and I'm lucky enough to own a computer and have a decent internet connection.

The only exception to this rule is Indie games, I am a huge supporter of Indie game developers and always buy their games if they look fun.

[Jake]

I consider pirating to be a lesser form of stealing. I feel bad about doing it, but I still haven't wrapped my mind around the idea that it's the same as taking something off store shelves. Digital content strives to be free. If I could teleport a fridge to my house without subsequently removing any other fridge from existence, I'd probably do that, and feel slightly bad about it in the process.

[Chaos]

I consider pirating to be a lesser form of stealing. I feel bad about doing it, but I still haven't wrapped my mind around the idea that it's the same as taking something off store shelves.

That's because it isn't the same.  It isn't stealing, it's copyright infringement.  And frankly, with how bent and corrupted copyright laws have become from their original form and intent, I have a hard time taking them seriously nowadays.

[Celson]

I usually download ps1 games that I used to own as a kid. Apparently you're allowed to do that if you own the games. I don't have the games anymore, but meh. Close enough.

[11clock]

I consider pirating to be a lesser form of stealing. I feel bad about doing it, but I still haven't wrapped my mind around the idea that it's the same as taking something off store shelves.

That's because it isn't the same.  It isn't stealing, it's copyright infringement.  And frankly, with how bent and corrupted copyright laws have become from their original form and intent, I have a hard time taking them seriously nowadays.

Actually, it is stealing as well. Getting something for free that you should of payed for is defined as stealing.

And in response to Jake, it isn't a lesser form of stealing, it's just the same thing as stealing but on the internet. You're getting away with a product that you should of payed for.

I have never pirated, so I am not sure how it all works, but that's the impression I get. If I have the wrong impression, please let me know.

[Jake]

I consider pirating to be a lesser form of stealing. I feel bad about doing it, but I still haven't wrapped my mind around the idea that it's the same as taking something off store shelves.

That's because it isn't the same.  It isn't stealing, it's copyright infringement.  And frankly, with how bent and corrupted copyright laws have become from their original form and intent, I have a hard time taking them seriously nowadays.

Actually, it is stealing as well. Getting something for free that you should of payed for is defined as stealing.

And in response to Jake, it isn't a lesser form of stealing, it's just the same thing as stealing but on the internet. You're getting away with a product that you should of payed for.

I have never pirated, so I am not sure how it all works, but that's the impression I get. If I have the wrong impression, please let me know.

I was always taught that stealing was bad because it deprives someone of the original object. If it doesn't deprive them of the original object, then I don't see the logic in calling it stealing. I'm not saying it isn't still bad to do, because it definitely can be depending on the situation, but labeling it as stealing gives people the wrong idea. If I walk over to your house, duplicate your microwave, and walk out of the house, you're not going to call the cops saying I stole your microwave. Why? Because after they realize the microwave is still there, they'll call you an idiot.

Either way, I still view piracy as a generally negative thing, but I also see it as an inevitable thing. Data wants to be free.

[Scotty]

I consider pirating to be a lesser form of stealing. I feel bad about doing it, but I still haven't wrapped my mind around the idea that it's the same as taking something off store shelves.

That's because it isn't the same.  It isn't stealing, it's copyright infringement.  And frankly, with how bent and corrupted copyright laws have become from their original form and intent, I have a hard time taking them seriously nowadays.

Actually, it is stealing as well. Getting something for free that you should of payed for is defined as stealing.

And in response to Jake, it isn't a lesser form of stealing, it's just the same thing as stealing but on the internet. You're getting away with a product that you should of payed for.

I have never pirated, so I am not sure how it all works, but that's the impression I get. If I have the wrong impression, please let me know.

Googling the definition of stealing revealed this definition:

Verb: Take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it: "thieves stole her bicycle".

Your argument addresses one of the implied parts of this definition.  Pirating take's another's property without permission or legal right, but it doesn't satisfy the last implication in that there is no need to return it since it was copied in the act, thus no material was technically lost.  Not going either way with this, just that people often overlook the definition of stealing to simply mean "taking", nothing more, which is not necessarily correct.

[Prosper]

Googling the definition of stealing revealed this definition:

Verb: Take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it: "thieves stole her bicycle".

A more accurate definition of Pirating would be :

"Pirates duplicated her bicycle and made millions for others so the bicycle shop ran out of buisness."

I personally don't have Windows installed on my new computer for the sole reason I did not want to pay for it. I do admit that when I download NES/SNES roms I keep them for more than 24 hours even if I don't own the original cartridge.

Also if no 'demo' version of a game exists I may download it first but if I play it more than a day before deleting it I buy it. (i.e. steam games)

Edit : I just got promoted to Sr. Member :)

[11clock]

Thanks for clarification. I'm still against pirating, however, as it still robs the developers of their money, unless you buy their product eventually. I do believe in a few exceptions of piracy, though. Playing ROMs of games that are no longer in the market I'm completely fine with, since there is no other method to get the game other than to buy it from someone else. For example, the SNES and NES games.

EDIT: Actually, to be honest, I've played ROMs before and I still have some on my computer, though they are only SNES ROMs. I stay away from ROMs of modern games, though.

[Scotty]

Thanks for clarification. I'm still against pirating, however, as it still robs the developers of their money, unless you buy their product eventually.

That's a noble opinion that no one can argue.

[Hikarikuen]

I really don't play that many games lately, although I'll admit I have pirated some games just to try them out (basically making my own demo... I don't want to spend $50 on a game I'll only have a few hours of free time to play.)

$50 is absolutely ridiculous. Especially for things like CoD which is just a rehash of the previous game. Not to mention you have to pay for new maps and DLCs, just racking up the price.

The only games I've bought are tf2, portal 2, and half-life 2. Because they are exceedingly good, and none of them were over $20. The rest can get !@#$ed with their $50 prices.

Yeah, I buy all my Valve games and I buy quite a few other games on Steam sales because then I at least feel I'm getting my money's worth, although I have to admit that still makes me feel like kind of a brat who feels entitled to the games.

Also, the above posts reminded me that I forgot to mention emulation; a few years ago I would have said downloading old roms was perfectly acceptable because there was no way to buy the games and support the company that made them. However, now we have things like Xbox Live Arcade and Nintendo's Virtual Console, so I find emulation slightly harder to justify for the relevant systems. Do things like that affect anyone else's opinions?

Oh, and one more question, about a slightly different scenario: with the Homebrew Channel on my Wii I'm able to patch some files and I can download any song in Guitar Hero and Rock Band. I'm not even gonna attempt to condone this, but I'm curious as to what you guys think of it.

[Chaos]

Thanks for clarification. I'm still against pirating, however, as it still robs the developers of their money, unless you buy their product eventually.

And that's where the debate comes in, because, you see, it DOESN'T rob them of money, it robs them of theoretical PROFIT.  They aren't LOSING any money as a product of pirating, they just aren't MAKING money.  That's where the line gets really shady, cause now you're robbing them of theoretical money that may or may not have ever existed.

[ARTgames]

Here's the thing. They don't want you to have the ability to play the game without you paying for it first basically. Yes you could just go to a friends house or borrow it from some one but they really cant do anything about that. (but i'm sure they would like to if they could.) So regardless if you really wanted the game or if you where ever going to buy the game to start with they still wanted money before you ever got the ability to to play it. Now that's just a rule set by people. The truth is it's information and it can be copied easily with are computers.

The only thing we are really getting tied up on is there rule that was made up. Its basically making money off keeping secrets. And they try to keep those secrets by lawsuits and DRM. Its the power in the rule. And what is the right/wrong way to get that secret is just up to society to decide.

As of right now the law says you can not do that. But laws are not really laws (What I mean by that is they can be broken) but just opinions defining behavior that got threw are legislative system at the time it was passed. And some times we change are minds on this stuff. As we see here many of you say it seems that you have a different opinion on that matter of this.

So what do you think? Do you think it should be ok for you to get the game and play it before paying them? Does it matter who is the user and who is the maker when you do this? I want you honest opinions but I just wanted to add please think about it for both parity. For the people who make it and people who use it.

[Lingus]

My stance on pirating is very similar to Jakes. I've actually used pretty much exactly the same argument (the one about copying and stealing the fridge from the store) with a friend of mine who is against pirating.

Although that is my stance, I no longer pirate. The reasons being that, for one, it's too time and effort consuming to be worth it for me, and secondly because I don't have very much time to play video games anymore. I also used to pirate music, but things like Pandora made it not at all worth it.

Oh, and of course, Steam and Steam sales have made it much more affordable to buy games. I have lists of games that I may eventually want to play, and when they go on sale through Steam I purchase them. I might spend around $50-100 per year and buy around 5 games. And I have games I purchased 2 or more years ago that I still haven't gotten around to. So i'm spending more like $10-20 per game on average. Of course, I can't play the games when they're brand new, but again, I don't have the time anyways so that's not important to me.

I think what is very important about that is that I used to be someone who pirated games because I simply could not afford to spend the kind of money necessary to buy what I wanted. Maybe I could buy 1 or 2 games per year, but even then, why would I do that when I could pirate it. The effort and time spent pirating was worth it for every game because the games were so expensive. So, all it took to convert someone like me away from pirating is to lower the prices. I think Valve is brilliant for this. They found a way to lower the prices without actually lowering the prices. Their Steam sales probably bring in tons and tons of cash for them and the companies that make the games. If they can continue along that path I think it will help reduce the incidence of pirating.

[Freeforall]

I pirate whatever I want, but I haven't been doing it as much lately. My internet is far to slow to download games. A 10GB video game would take around 14-16 hours here.