Religion Thread 2.0

[TANK]

i dont get it, so if ones happy and is living a good life believes in god and is doing just fine in the world, he has less quality of life, and less perspective? If you guys can live with being atheists, you know thinking you're on top, you think you understand the world and its making you tougher or something and your not living a "lie" then good on you, but dont bag on people who arent and are doing just fine. When the day comes im on my death bed ide rather be "ignorant" and die happy then be depressed knowing that worms are gonna be !@#$ing eachother in my brain and thats my bodys eternity. Dont worry you guys you wont be fooled by silly gods and religion like me. you are top thinkers and will probably be thinking about how you bettered the earth by blabbing around about how theres no god when your about to die.

[Titan]

Figured I'd throw out my opinion on this.

In all honesty I don't really think on this stuff anymore. It may make me look ignorant, but I used to wonder about this stuff all the time.
In the end I've realized that there is no point speculating on any of this, because no matter what I think, its not gonna to change how it actually is.

I'd say I'm agnostic in that I believe there is something bigger than us out there, but thats about it.

[Jake]

i dont get it, so if ones happy and is living a good life believes in god and is doing just fine in the world, he has less quality of life, and less perspective? If you guys can live with being atheists, you know thinking you're on top, you think you understand the world and its making you tougher or something and your not living a "lie" then good on you, but dont bag on people who arent and are doing just fine. When the day comes im on my death bed ide rather be "ignorant" and die happy then be depressed knowing that worms are gonna be !@#$ing eachother in my brain and thats my bodys eternity. Dont worry you guys you wont be fooled by silly gods and religion like me. you are top thinkers and will probably be thinking about how you bettered the earth by blabbing around about how theres no god when your about to die.

We don't understand the world. We don't understand why we exist. We have no idea what's going to happen after we die. Logically, we can probably conclude that we will cease to exist, but even that is uncertain. You have this false perception that atheists think they know everything. I only claim that I don't find enough evidence to support the existence of God. Any other assumptions you make about me or other atheists is a total lie based on fear. You're afraid of the truth, because the truth is scary. So what do you do? You attack anything that resembles the truth so that you can continue living in your made up world. This isn't elementary school. I'm not going to sugar coat my beliefs so as not to scare you away. This is a debate topic, and I've shared some of my beliefs on religion. If you can't handle it, maybe you need to take a break from debating points that you clearly aren't willing to look at in a non-biased way.

If you haven't noticed, everybody in this thread has been very respectful. There are christians, atheists, agnostics, mormans, and people with many other beliefs participating in this thread without losing their temper because somebody has challenged their viewpoint. If you really want the truth, you need to acknowledge somebody's argument, understand where they're coming from, and if you still disagree with it, attempt to rebuttal. Spewing the same jargon over and over, after you're shown that it's not even close to resembling a logical viewpoint is exactly the reason why I don't debate much anymore. I've been putting up with you because I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt and want you to take something away from our discussion, even if it's some tips on forming a grammatically coherent sentence, but now you've taken it upon yourself to start insulting our beliefs because they don't resemble the sunshine filtered view you want out of the world. Guess what? You can't filter reality. Keep pretending the train isn't coming but don't blame me for taking one last look at the sky before we're both flattened.

[TANK]

sorry i shouldnt have spouted off like that on you guys. I have taken a couple things away from this and its that i think ide rather keep my sunshine daisy reality, you guys enjoy your bleak depressing one, ill be having a tea party on the train tracks. I think ill leave you guys and the debate alone from now on. I knew i shouldnt have posted because normally i cant find people with the same veiws as me on religion and such whereever i go. I also dont take arguing well, maybe im a little slow in the head, or maybe im just ignorant. Thanks for giving me the benifit of the doubt jake.

[Jake]

ill be having a tea party on the train tracks.

Haha, I actually laughed at that one.

[Yankyal]

Figured I'd throw out my opinion on this.

In all honesty I don't really think on this stuff anymore. It may make me look ignorant, but I used to wonder about this stuff all the time.
In the end I've realized that there is no point speculating on any of this, because no matter what I think, its not gonna to change how it actually is.

I'd say I'm agnostic in that I believe there is something bigger than us out there, but thats about it.

Why do you believe there is something bigger than us? I always hear people say they don't believe in a specific religion but have the idea that there's a god.

[Mystery]

i dont get it, so if ones happy and is living a good life believes in god and is doing just fine in the world, he has less quality of life, and less perspective? If you guys can live with being atheists, you know thinking you're on top, you think you understand the world and its making you tougher or something and your not living a "lie" then good on you, but dont bag on people who arent and are doing just fine. When the day comes im on my death bed ide rather be "ignorant" and die happy then be depressed knowing that worms are gonna be !@#$ing eachother in my brain and thats my bodys eternity. Dont worry you guys you wont be fooled by silly gods and religion like me. you are top thinkers and will probably be thinking about how you bettered the earth by blabbing around about how theres no god when your about to die.

You misunderstood me. That only applies to those who haven't thought about their religion whatsoever.

If you take the time to think about things and think you have a good understanding(and still have a reason to believe), then you're not ignorant.

And despite the odds being overwhelmingly against them chance-wise, there is ALWAYS a possibility that they are correct. Some ones more than others.

Jake summarized the rest.

[ARTgames]

We don't understand the world. We don't understand why we exist. We have no idea what's going to happen after we die.

I don't really believe in why but just how. And what is it to understand? As some level we "don't know" everything.

[Titan]

Figured I'd throw out my opinion on this.

In all honesty I don't really think on this stuff anymore. It may make me look ignorant, but I used to wonder about this stuff all the time.
In the end I've realized that there is no point speculating on any of this, because no matter what I think, its not gonna to change how it actually is.

I'd say I'm agnostic in that I believe there is something bigger than us out there, but thats about it.

Why do you believe there is something bigger than us? I always hear people say they don't believe in a specific religion but have the idea that there's a god.

Its just a feeling I've always had. I'm not saying that there is a god out there, just something bigger.

[Yankyal]

Figured I'd throw out my opinion on this.

In all honesty I don't really think on this stuff anymore. It may make me look ignorant, but I used to wonder about this stuff all the time.
In the end I've realized that there is no point speculating on any of this, because no matter what I think, its not gonna to change how it actually is.

I'd say I'm agnostic in that I believe there is something bigger than us out there, but thats about it.

Why do you believe there is something bigger than us? I always hear people say they don't believe in a specific religion but have the idea that there's a god.

Its just a feeling I've always had. I'm not saying that there is a god out there, just something bigger.

Do you base any decisions on it? Has it affected your life in any way?

[Titan]

Figured I'd throw out my opinion on this.

In all honesty I don't really think on this stuff anymore. It may make me look ignorant, but I used to wonder about this stuff all the time.
In the end I've realized that there is no point speculating on any of this, because no matter what I think, its not gonna to change how it actually is.

I'd say I'm agnostic in that I believe there is something bigger than us out there, but thats about it.

Why do you believe there is something bigger than us? I always hear people say they don't believe in a specific religion but have the idea that there's a god.

Its just a feeling I've always had. I'm not saying that there is a god out there, just something bigger.

Do you base any decisions on it? Has it affected your life in any way?

Not at all, I find that its quite easy to life however I want. And as for affecting my life, thats also really another no.

[Lingus]

Guess what? You can't filter reality.

Yea, sure you can. Reality is what you make of it.

I wanted to get back to the discussion of God. It seemed that a few people were making the point that if God exists, and God allows bad things to happen in the world, then God is inherantly imperfect. This isn't really a logical assumption. Just playing devil's advocate here since I don't necessarily believe in this viewpoint, but based on the view of the Judeo-Christian God, free will is a major point to this discussion. Basically look at it this way: If God exists, and God made humans only do good things, then God is inherantly imperfect.

Now I don't particularly think God is "perfect" but I definitely think a universe with free will is a "better" universe than one with no evil. Better in the sense that it has more meaning. A "perfect" universe with no evil has absolutely no point. And this gets down to some of my beliefs on the potential of a meta-physical reality. I don't believe that there is necessarily a God, or that there is something "bigger", but we definitely all have the ability to perceive any number of posibilities in relation to this. In other words, reality is what we make of it. Which is kind of to the core of my beliefs on this topic. We can perceive the world to be made of numbers, facts, what we can show evidence for. We can also look beyond or around these things and choose to see all sorts of possibilities. They are not necessarily true or untrue, it just is what it is.

[Mystery]

Guess what? You can't filter reality.

Yea, sure you can. Reality is what you make of it.

You can filter reality, yes. It doesn't change the fact that your filtered version of reality is inaccurate in comparison to the actual reality.

I wanted to get back to the discussion of God. It seemed that a few people were making the point that if God exists, and God allows bad things to happen in the world, then God is inherantly imperfect. This isn't really a logical assumption. Just playing devil's advocate here since I don't necessarily believe in this viewpoint, but based on the view of the Judeo-Christian God, free will is a major point to this discussion. Basically look at it this way: If God exists, and God made humans only do good things, then God is inherantly imperfect.

Now I don't particularly think God is "perfect" but I definitely think a universe with free will is a "better" universe than one with no evil.

If I was forced to be a god like the Judeo-Christian one minus the gigantic conglomerate of evil, pettiness, and contradictions, and for some reason I chose to make a limited universe like ours, I would set my people in a world where only lessons-to-be-learned things would happen which were not my fault that were detrimental to daily life(like being careful not to spill milk, not intentionally hurting others, etc.) and get rid of everything like disease, war, torture, and famine. I would also give people the option to age, die, or anything else they wanted. I wouldn't demand worship as I would think it'd be dumb, as God, I wouldn't care. If someone WANTED to, they could although I'd think it's completely unnecessary. Personally speaking, it would really scare me.

I'm not asking for no evil. Evil needs to exist in order for good to exist, because without either as a frame of reference, both lose their meaning. I'm asking for highly restrained evil to the point where it no longer harms anything.

THAT is free will.

In THIS universe, however, you either accept God and go to heaven or you go to hell. Seeing as pretty much everyone doesn't want to go to hell seeing as absolutely nothing warrants eternal punishment, this is an unbelievably laughable 'choice' God gave us.

It would be like someone robbing your house, (putting you in a convoluted crappy situation, like our supposed shambles of a creation) putting a gun to your head and giving you the option to either not tell anyone it happened and live, or die on the spot. That's a choice. It's free will! Gee, what an infinitely kind and loving guy this must be!

Except that in this case the robber is supposedly omnipotent, omniscient, and all-loving, and the two options are what amounts to living in an emotionally warped police state spending your time worshiping the robber for eternity, or eternal punishment in a fiery, demented hellhole.

AND the robber was our creator.

[Yankyal]

[kensuga]

Well if you think about the good and evil concept, its completely based off the persons perspective on the subject. So really, Good and Evil is a non-existant figure, and is a humane representation of ones opinion on a subject. And as for free will of subjects, Well if good is omnipotent then he knows our past, present and future. If the future is then decided, where is our free will? Also Christianity follows the Bible, which has tons of rules and thing to follow, otherwise if you don't you will spend eternity in damnation. So there isn't much free will in there now is there?

Just as something interesting to bring to the topic. There are 3 videos that you may find interesting in the subject. You may ignore the video title if you want, but they have some good information there:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvnuVWakVkc&list=LLdIsL5mSnclBtbAPTD1e8Jw&index=2&feature=plpp_video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhTgDuRxEUM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2pU2FHj2Iw&feature=related