Group of kids throw a dog off a 50 foot bridge...

[Trogdor]

To coincide with my theory above, lets look at the polar opposite scenario.  Let's say Lingus's ultimate goal is achieved, and we all took on a total state of vegetarianism.  Can we grasp how swiftly we are going to get over-ran by these animals we would normally consume.  Think of it like this.  Every year, back in my home state of Michigan, a certain amount of licenses are sold to hunters to hunt deer.  That number is based off of studies done to determine the over-population of deer, thus regulating how many there are, as to prevent too many from say... Running out in the road and killing drivers, and to also ensure that they don't become endangered.

We've all heard theories of how quickly we humans are going to become over-populated in the world.  Numbers are increasing every second, and dying off at a much lower rate.  Now relate that to animals we would normally consume.  We currently have to regulate them because if we didn't, they would die off.  If we went to total vegetarianism, they would over-run us, and we'd still have to regulate them, by killing them off.  Only now, we're killing to keep us humans alive, not for some practical use like regulating them, and benefiting from the regulation with say, food.

That theory only holds true if humans were the only predator in that area of deer. The relationship between predator-prey is natural, and is only thrown out of balance when humans introduce a species to an area to which there are no predators that eat them, or breed them for food, pets, etc. Another way that could lead to an inbalance is by killing a species that is a danger to us, such as sharks, which would lead to an increase in the shark's prey.

The world got along fine without humans for eons. Do you really believe nature can't take care of itself?

[LeGuy]

The world got along fine without humans for eons. Do you really believe nature can't take care of itself?

Link.

[Trogdor]

The world got along fine without humans for eons. Do you really believe nature can't take care of itself?

Link.

I can't believe you just linked one of my favorite comedians. For some reason I've never seen this one. :D

[Scotty]

The world got along fine without humans for eons. Do you really believe nature can't take care of itself?

That's not really what I was getting at with my post.  What I was trying to say is that we are a natural predator to many animals.  We like to play smart with a lot of our predatorial (if that's even a word) instincts by eating our prey.  Now say we cut in half what we play the predator role over (ie animals), we now just opened a giant can of disruption to the natural balance of what we've worked to achieve.  We strive to maintain balance with the animals that we eat.  We regulate cows, pigs, chickens.  Once we stop regulating them, they will grow with us.  Perfect example would be India.  They don't eat beef.  They consider cows God-like figures.  You therefor have cows roaming the streets.  You literally have cows in the streets where people travel on.  Humans won't touch them, as that is some sort of sacrilegious act.  Now twist that a little bit for our case here.  If we aren't eating the cows, sure there will be other predators, but we are by far the biggest predator over them.  If we co-exist with them (not die off like you suggested) but discontinue regulating them, in the distant future, it's going to start to get a little hairy. 

[Trogdor]

The world got along fine without humans for eons. Do you really believe nature can't take care of itself?

That's not really what I was getting at with my post.  What I was trying to say is that we are a natural predator to many animals.  We like to play smart with a lot of our predatorial (if that's even a word) instincts by eating our prey.  Now say we cut in half what we play the predator role over (ie animals), we now just opened a giant can of disruption to the natural balance of what we've worked to achieve.  We strive to maintain balance with the animals that we eat.  We regulate cows, pigs, chickens.  Once we stop regulating them, they will grow with us.

You make it seem like all of these animals only have one predator: humans. The next predator in the food chain will take over and regulate their species. Since there will be an abundance of food, the predators' numbers will grow. After the prey has diminished, many predators will starve as a result, or move on to other areas. As a result of lack of predators in the area, the prey population will increase, and so on and so forth.

Perfect example would be India.  They don't eat beef.  They consider cows God-like figures.  You therefor have cows roaming the streets.  You literally have cows in the streets where people travel on.

Not to be blunt, but that's the complete opposite of a perfect example. The main reason why there are numerous cows in India are the absence of their predators (including humans). The towns and cities in which they roam are free of other predators, as they are dangerous to humans as well. This creates a haven of sorts for them. That accompanied by an abundance of food "provided" by the people (the cows there often meander through markets eating whatever they fancy, and to shoo one away is considered a sin) is the reason for their huge population. Any species' population will grow if there are no predators and an abundance of food. There would not be anywhere near as much cows in India if they were forbidden to enter the areas where people live.

In America, cows are not held in such high regard, and the idea of them roaming our cities is laughable, the whole country being vegetarian or not. As a result, this excess of prey will be moved out into the wild, where, believe it or not, other predators will happily consume. Cow problem solved.

[Lingus]

Some people out there are so god damn paranoid that they don't want to kill ANYTHING.

Actually, I think you've missed the point here. No one in this topic feels that way so why even bring it up. This topic is about animal suffering. Not the killing of any and all types of organic life forms. Sure, there are some people that feel the way you have described, but it's kind of off point for the discussion.

To coincide with my theory above, lets look at the polar opposite scenario.  Let's say Lingus's ultimate goal is achieved, and we all took on a total state of vegetarianism.  Can we grasp how swiftly we are going to get over-ran by these animals we would normally consume.  Think of it like this.  Every year, back in my home state of Michigan, a certain amount of licenses are sold to hunters to hunt deer.  That number is based off of studies done to determine the over-population of deer, thus regulating how many there are, as to prevent too many from say... Running out in the road and killing drivers, and to also ensure that they don't become endangered.

We've all heard theories of how quickly we humans are going to become over-populated in the world.  Numbers are increasing every second, and dying off at a much lower rate.  Now relate that to animals we would normally consume.  We currently have to regulate them because if we didn't, they would die off.  If we went to total vegetarianism, they would over-run us, and we'd still have to regulate them, by killing them off.  Only now, we're killing to keep us humans alive, not for some practical use like regulating them, and benefiting from the regulation with say, food.

Btw, I did point that out briefly in my post. Though I think it would reach some kind of equilibrium after a period of time. We could continue to use animals for there meat, but stop breeding them in such high numbers. Once their population reaches a critical low number we could just let them be and they would breed and die off on their own. Throw in the fact that we would no longer be protecting them from any natural predators and the populations would be self regulating. It's probably more complicated being that I've over-simplified the process... but you get the point.

[Chaos]

In case anyone hasn't noticed yet: We are are natural predators, and we are helping keep populations in check, just like any other animal.  What's the problem?

[DarkBlade325]

This topic is about animal suffering. Not the killing of any and all types of organic life forms.

Lingus we've been switching between topics for the past 3 pages of this thread now, just so you know.. All consisting of either animal cruelty, killing animals for no reason in a cruel MANNER, (which is what I was going on about), and the whole thing on how eating meat is bad or something like that, anyways. And no, I don't count the time where Phoenix Wright was brought up.

No one in this topic feels that way so why even bring it up. Sure, there are some people that feel the way you have described, but it's kind of off point for the discussion.

I wasn't aware you could read minds. I don't recall anyone saying they felt the way I described them. "But I just said that", you may be asking yourself. But that's where I make my point at. "I don't recall anyone SAYING they felt the way I described them." Some people like to keep some of their opinions to themselves you know. I'm just giving my personal answer to that opinion on paranoid vegetarians that maybe lurking in this thread. They don't have to respond.

Who knows, maybe you like rape and you don't want to give out your opinion. So here's my opinion on that matter...It's bad. I'm just !@#$ing around with you here obviously, but sometimes I like to answer those questions that people don't like to bring into the daylight, no matter how it may make them feel when I do bring it up, while at the same time giving my opinion on a similar matter at hand.

Also does it really matter that I jumped somewhat off topic? We've been doing it for quite a while now. We went from a dude dropping a dog off of a bridge, to Phoenix Wright at some point.


As for Chaos who so RUDELY stole my reply space (shame shame Chaos), I agree.

[DivineLegend]

if you have noticed, most predators have their eyes on the front of their head, take lions, tigers, HUMANS, bears, wolves (few exceptions like predatorial fish (sharks)), and that most prey have their eyes on the sides of their heads, like birds, squirrels, gophers, dear, mice, small fish, shrimp, (with other few exceptions like ostriges or however it is spelt), nature made us this way

[Trogdor]

if you have noticed, most predators have their eyes on the front of their head, take lions, tigers, HUMANS, bears, wolves (few exceptions like predatorial fish (sharks)), and that most prey have their eyes on the sides of their heads, like birds, squirrels, gophers, dear, mice, small fish, shrimp, (with other few exceptions like ostriges or however it is spelt), nature made us this way

We also have molars for grinding plant cellulose, a sorry excuse for "claws", a much longer digestive track, and we greatly lack in strength and agility when compared to other predators. The only reason we are able to be a predator is through the use of tools to aid us. The most we could kill and eat with our bare hands are insects and other small creatures, such as lizards.

Also, we are the only predator that acts like a scavenger after we kill our meat. When a gazelle is killed by a lion, it's flesh is still flushed with oxygen-rich blood, providing the cells with the necessary component to continue its life processes, such as cellular respiration, if only for a very short while. We on the other hand cook our meat, killing it in the process, and then consume it. A predator prefers fresh meat to dead. We prefer dead meat to fresh.

This is not to say that we're not omnivores. We are able to live off of meat, probably due to the ice age humanity experienced, and had to adapt to a new eating lifestyle as many vegetation had died. We have the best of both worlds, in other words.

[Scotty]

I wasn't aware you could read minds. I don't recall anyone saying they felt the way I described them.

Quit being a chode.

[DarkBlade325]

Oh come on Scotty, you really think this conversation was going to stay mature? Nonsense! A dick comment must be placed here and now.

Alright yeah, my apologies. Sides', I'm sure Lingus can handle one little douche comment...Or any other douche comment that I posted past page number 1 on this thread.

[JoEL]

Oh come on Scotty, you really think this conversation was going to stay mature? Nonsense! A dick comment must be placed here and now.

Alright yeah, apologies. Sides', I'm sure Lingus can handle one little douche comment...Or any other douche comment that I posted past page number 1 on this thread.

I wish you would stfu already, we all know your being a chode here, as scotty already pointed out.

I wasn't aware you could read minds. I don't recall anyone saying they felt the way I described them. "But I just said that", you may be asking yourself. But that's where I make my point at. "I don't recall anyone SAYING they felt the way I described them." Some people like to keep some of their opinions to themselves you know. I'm just giving my personal answer to that opinion on paranoid vegetarians that maybe lurking in this thread. They don't have to respond

I'm sorry but you really have no right speaking for everyone else and you should just drop that !@$@ right now.

Sure you can have your opinion but then maybe you should think if its the right thing or not to introduce your opinion into these forums like this...

I like to answer those questions that people don't like to bring into the daylight

That's nice and all...but in all honesty who really asked what your hobbies were...

....now back to the main post it's self, I agree that this guy should be locked up in prison for more then a year atleast, but I'm sure glad the dog was okay, no one deserves something cruel like that done to them, even if it's of another species.

[stick d00d]

If we are able to live off eating meat/vegetation who cares how we get it? We need these things to live. I'm not saying i support the slaughter houses who use cruel methods, I'm just saying that either way we are going to eat it.. Either way an 'innocent' animal is going to be dead no matter how the slaughter's kill them. I know that sounds bad but it's true, and just be glad we don't have to see them being killed/tortured, because if the slaughters'/butchers didn't exist, we would have to do it ourself.

[Trogdor]

If we are able to live off eating meat/vegetation who cares how we get it? We need these things to live.

This is the idea we're discussing here. We are able to live off of both, which allows us to make a conscious decision to choose one or the other based on purely ethical reasons.

I'm not saying i support the slaughter houses who use cruel methods, I'm just saying that either way we are going to eat it..

You make it sound like we have no choice but to eat meat. Also, if you buy your meat from a slaughterhouse, you're supporting it with your money. Just thought I'd point that out.